7800X3D/9800X3D vs. 14900k - any benchmarks?

[Winger]

Did anyone do benchmarks to compare these 2 CPUs in a more recent version of DCS?
Since my rig is running CPU bound most of the time and the new Intel CPUs are obviously junk in gaming i am thinking about upgrading my 14900k to a 9800X3D
Since there arent any benchmakrs for the 9800X3D at all yet i would love to know if anyone compared the 7800x3D vs the 13900 or 14900k more recently and can give me some informed, more recent clue of what to expect IF i do this CPU switch.

I found a youtube vid with benchmarking on the 7800X3D Vs the 12900k but the video is quite old and things might have changed.

Edited November 1, 2024 by Winger

[kksnowbear]

I think the problem with what you're asking is made up of two parts:

1. The people who do benchmark 'reviews' don't usually test DCS.  Even some of the extensive testing I've seen (eg 40-game tests) don't include DCS.  The only flight sim you usually see is MSFS, and I'm not sure how much of an 'analogue' that really is for DCS (particularly in VR). Both are fairly demanding, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're demanding for the same reasons.  (FWIW I think they're not).

2. People doing DCS-specific testing (as 'enthusiasts') don't usually have two full setups (one an AM5, the other a Raptor Lake as you specified), to do side-by-side testing.

With that said, I think it's generally understood the 7800X3D performs better overall in DCS (due primarily to it's additional cache), and I believe AMD has now reported the 9800X3D to be on average ~8% better than the 7800X3D.  This is AMD's internal testing, mind you, so I'm thinking it will be a little less in the 3rd-party reviews.  So let's say 5-6%, and the prices are very close ATM (subject to change, of course).

I believe it's also true to say that AMD has committed to AM5 supporting the *next* generation of CPUs (Ryzen X or 10000, I suppose), which if I understand correctly will be based on Zen6.  So any upgrade plans would need to consider this.  AMD is supposed to support the Am5 socket through 2027; Intel is tripping over their own dangley-bits right now, but I guess it's possible that by 2027 they could actually pull their sh*t together.

I do realize this is sort of a vague answer to your inquiry but it's probably close as anyone can get.

Edited November 1, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Winger]

HEy mate. Thanks for your detailed opinion. I will wait for the independent reviews and then see. I might at all wait for the big brothers of the 9800X3D to come out and do one big upgrade together with the RTX 5090

[kksnowbear]

Sure thing, glad if it helps

Another big factor is price, more so if you're looking at replacing other components (ie motherboard etc). Especially in EU prices seem to always be higher, just an unfortunate reality I guess.

 

[Aapje]

EU prices (have to) include sales tax, and the tax is higher in EU countries anyway than in the US.

[The_Nephilim]

15 hours ago, Winger said:

Did anyone do benchmarks to compare these 2 CPUs in a more recent version of DCS?
Since my rig is running CPU bound most of the time and the new Intel CPUs are obviously junk in gaming i am thinking about upgrading my 14900k to a 9800X3D
Since there arent any benchmakrs for the 9800X3D at all yet i would love to know if anyone compared the 7800x3D vs the 13900 or 14900k more recently and can give me some informed, more recent clue of what to expect IF i do this CPU switch.

I found a youtube vid with benchmarking on the 7800X3D Vs the 12900k but the video is quite old and things might have changed.

 

well why we don't do our own benchmark. someone here has to have a 7800x3d cpu and all. If we get a benchmark scenario I would test it out to compare notes.. I am also curious about what the 7800x3d can do here I hear so much talk..

[Winger]

Good Idea. If qe can find someone with a 7800x3d, 64gb RAM and a 4090 we can both Run Same ingame Benchmark (If there is one) and compared results.thw Thing is the whole Setup would have to AS Close to eachother AS possible 

Including Background taska Like process Lasso and Things Like that

Edited November 2, 2024 by Winger

[kksnowbear]

On 11/1/2024 at 3:48 PM, Aapje said:

EU prices (have to) include sales tax, and the tax is higher in EU countries anyway than in the US.

Yes, I realize all that.  We have tax in the states too, required by law (with perhaps a very few notable exceptions) - though yes, I am aware it is not at the same level as in Europe.

As I said, that's simply unfortunate.  During my time in the military I traveled through and was stationed in parts of Europe, so I'm familiar, first hand.

I only said what I did originally since I get tired of getting jumped on because EU prices are always higher and I'm citing US prices.  I do feel it's unfortunate, but it's not my fault and it's not something I need to be concerned with, since I don't live, shop, or sell in the EU.  The point is that a lot of stuff is usually more expensive there, not just computers/components.  It costs more to buy stuff there; not as if it's just computer stuff.

Pretty much everyone in the US - and in many cases, people outside the US - cite prices in, and use USD as the basis for, comparison when discussing computer stuff. For example, the HUB videos typically cite prices in USD, but they're in Australia.  Lots of other examples, too.  No need to carry on like I'm wrong when I do the same thing here.  The constant, and seemingly automatic complaint that "You can't buy it for that (US) price in the EU" is pointless; it may be true, but that's the way it is.  As unfortunate as it may be, things don't cost the same in different places around the world.

Edited November 4, 2024 by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

6 hours ago, Winger said:

Good Idea. If qe can find someone with a 7800x3d, 64gb RAM and a 4090 we can both Run Same ingame Benchmark (If there is one) and compared results.thw Thing is the whole Setup would have to AS Close to eachother AS possible 

Including Background taska Like process Lasso and Things Like that

I have a 7800X3D and 4090...but part of the problem with this idea is exactly as you say.

To my knowledge, there is no in game benchmark in DCS.  Most people refer to using "track files" (if I've followed correctly) but I'm pretty sure that's not the same thing as running a dedicated, 'purpose-built' benchmark.  I see lots of comparison discussions here where one guy says his CPU/GPU runs at x FPS/y frame times and "smooth as silk"...but then another guy with basically the same hardware says he's looking at a stuttering mess...obviously something's different.

What they're failing to take into account is what we're talking about here:  It's not the similarities in the two setups, it's the differences.

As you've said: The two system 'environments' (OS, drivers, utils, even other apps) would have to be the same - and that is very difficult (and time consuming) to do.  Not to mention that (as you said) if we take something like Process Lasso, just as one example, maybe one guy insists on having it where another guy refuses to ever use it.  And again, that's just one example.  Lots of others.  One guy undervolts his GPU, the other does not.  One guy spent hours and hours "fine tuning the tertiary timings" on his build, the other set BIOS for XMP/EXPO and left it at that.  I could go on and on.

Now, which of these two guys is going to change his setup to match the other's?

So in reality you're not just talking about two guys, one with a 14900K/4090 and the other with a 7800X3D/4090.  They'd have to have the same components (as close as practically possible) including RAM speeds/timings, etc...and then the same OS, drivers, etc... 

You can see it becomes progressively more difficult to find two systems that are truly "the same", and in order to overcome the differences, one guy or the other would have to change his entire setup to match the other's...I can't speak for anyone else, I don't think I'd want to do all that TBH - and doing it any other way is what I'd call a 'half measure', which leads to the kind of confusion I described above, which you do see all the time on flight sim forums.

I do a lot of testing in my shop, for various reasons.  I can tell you first hand that testing like this isn't something you do in a day.  In can take days or even more depending on a lot of factors, which I won't go into here.

I'd go a step further and say that (IMO), the single biggest reason people arrive at such very different outcomes with all the "testing" you read about on a forum like this one, is that they don't put the necessary effort and discipline into making sure they don't introduce variance by allowing differences.  Proper testing is actually not trivial, and can be very demanding work.

Hopefully that makes sense.  To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible - of course not.  I'm just elaborating on why it's essential to compare two systems that are the same, and yet why that's also the reason it's very difficult to actually do so.

Edited November 2, 2024 by kksnowbear

[EightyDuce]

As mentioned above, lack of a standardized benchmark and control over hardware/software variance between two systems makes this very difficult to do in a meaningful manner.

It is almost impossible to do this without someone having identically configured systems. Otherwise you're not getting apples to apples comparison.

[Winger]

I think i'll Just wait for the Embargo lift on the 9800x3d and See how IT compares to the 14900k.

Then i'll decide.

My guess IS that IT will BE Worth IT. Especially since i will have the Option to Upgrade Further with the bigger x3ds next year.

And the Upgrade wont BE that Bad for my wallet since i will get a few hubdred buck for the 14900k and board

 

[kksnowbear]

22 hours ago, Winger said:

I think i'll Just wait for the Embargo lift on the 9800x3d and See how IT compares to the 14900k.

Then i'll decide.

My guess IS that IT will BE Worth IT. Especially since i will have the Option to Upgrade Further with the bigger x3ds next year.

And the Upgrade wont BE that Bad for my wallet since i will get a few hubdred buck for the 14900k and board

 

I think this is a good approach.  I believe the 7800X3D is already generally considered more capable in gaming than the 14900K, and the 9800X3D appears to be slightly better still.

There are costs, of course, but a. Part of it is offset as you indicated by whatever you can get for the current platform, and b. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because you go with a 9800X3D that you need to go with an 800-series chipset board.  That's not accurate, and it will almost certainly cost you money for nearly nothing.

If the 7800X3D isn't what you want *or* isn't available/costs more where you are *or* you'd rather just go to the 9800X3D, you can still avoid the higher costs of the "latest and greatest" 800-series boards by going with a comparable 600-series board - same features, less cost (by quite a bit, in some cases).

One of the major 'selling points' of AM5 is that AMD committed to supporting the socket through the following several generations of CPUs.  Therefore, Zen5 does not require an 800-series board.  Some of the least expensive B650 boards out there still have support for Zen5 CPUs, and PCIe 5.0 storage on at least one M2 slot (which is honestly adequate, even for a high-end machine).  And although the 'primary' GPU slot might not be Gen5, even a 4090 can barely saturate a PCIe 3.0 x16 interface; it doesn't come close to saturating PCIe 4.0x16 - so plenty of GPU slot bandwidth available for future GPU upgrades.

I'm not saying anyone should just buy the cheapest AM5 board they can find; what I am saying is there are lots of options that don't involve a $300 price tag and still offer excellent features/performance.

I don't know why some misguided people insist an AM5 upgrade - even a Zen5 CPU like a 9800X3D - means you have to spend $300 on an 800-series motherboard.  I just don't think that's accurate (regardless of where you are located).

Edited November 4, 2024 by kksnowbear

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Winger said:

I think i'll Just wait for the Embargo lift on the 9800x3d and See how IT compares to the 14900k.

Then i'll decide.

My guess IS that IT will BE Worth IT. Especially since i will have the Option to Upgrade Further with the bigger x3ds next year.

And the Upgrade wont BE that Bad for my wallet since i will get a few hubdred buck for the 14900k and board

 

Considering that 7800X3D already beats 14900k in gaming overall and 9800X3D at a minimum is 4-8% faster stock for stock (before any OC headroom), then logic would dictate that 9800X3D will also handily beat out 14900k in gaming. 

Throw it into a half decent b650E or X670E board and you're off to the races.

Interesting part will be how vcache being under the CCD effects signaling/latency and vdroop, which will bleed over into overclocking. Direct die cooling could make things more spicy. 

[Winger]

Found a buyer for my 14900k

So i'll definately Go 8900x3d

Could Take a while for me to do Tests cause i have <profanity>ty Internet and Reinstall, If necessary, will Take a while

[kksnowbear]

14 minutes ago, Winger said:

Found a buyer for my 14900k

So i'll definately Go 8900x3d

Could Take a while for me to do Tests cause i have <profanity>ty Internet and Reinstall, If necessary, will Take a while

Great news...if I may ask, do you have thoughts yet on the motherboard you'll use?  What are prices like where you are?

[Winger]

i ordered a Gigabyte AORUS Pro ICE AMD X870E
Its 347,- here in Germany.
Also I added a 
2TB Corsair MP700 PRO SE - SSD - PCI Express 5.0 x4 (NVMe)
for 326,-
Now i only have to wait for the 9800X3D to become available.

 

I saw a review that said the older X870 Chipsets would be as capable while being a tad cheaper. But i decided to pay the few bucks more to have everything the newest technology.

Who knows what software development can make in regards to added performance on the newer chipset later on

 

Now i only have to hide the boxes from my girl when they arrive;P

[kksnowbear]

57 minutes ago, Winger said:

i ordered a Gigabyte AORUS Pro ICE AMD X870E
Its 347,- here in Germany.
Also I added a 
2TB Corsair MP700 PRO SE - SSD - PCI Express 5.0 x4 (NVMe)
for 326,-
Now i only have to wait for the 9800X3D to become available.

I saw a review that said the older X870 Chipsets would be as capable while being a tad cheaper. But i decided to pay the few bucks more to have everything the newest technology.

Who knows what software development can make in regards to added performance on the newer chipset later on

Now i only have to hide the boxes from my girl when they arrive;P

Of course, don't let her find out (you might not live to see the 9800X3D)! lol  (BTW my own personal strategy is to get her something very nice at the same time, and I show her that first, before she sees my new stuff )

Yes, the older 600 chipsets are very similar to the newer 800s.  I don't think there are significant differences in the way the CPU itself will behave, the differences are more about things like peripherals (USB 4, as one example).  I could be wrong here, but I believe that even the 9800X3D's overclocking would be supported on (at least some) older 600-series boards - although I admit I haven't studied that extensively.  If there are significant differences, I would think it's more about the specific board model/manufacturer than it is about the chipset.

There's absolutely nothing "wrong" with buying a newer 800-series board, of course, if you have the budget and wish to go that way.  But it's not required, and for those on a tighter budget there are less costly options that will still provide optimal CPU performance.

In any event, I'm sure you'll be happy with your new build

viel Glück!

Edited November 5, 2024 by kksnowbear

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Winger said:

i ordered a Gigabyte AORUS Pro ICE AMD X870E
Its 347,- here in Germany.
Also I added a 
2TB Corsair MP700 PRO SE - SSD - PCI Express 5.0 x4 (NVMe)
for 326,-
Now i only have to wait for the 9800X3D to become available.

 

I saw a review that said the older X870 Chipsets would be as capable while being a tad cheaper. But i decided to pay the few bucks more to have everything the newest technology.

Who knows what software development can make in regards to added performance on the newer chipset later on

 

Now i only have to hide the boxes from my girl when they arrive;P

Looks like a nice build. What are your plans for cooling? Unlike the 7800X3D, the biggest boon for 9800X3D is ability to overclock and boost higher. Both scale with cooling (within voltage constraints). 

[Winger]

I Have a Gigabyte Aorus Water Force 360 AIO

[jnr4817]

I’ve got a 7800x3d, b650 tomahawk, 64g 6200, 4090, m.2 and flying in vr with g2. Happy to do a benchmark run if you can supply a miz. My motherboard supports the 9800x3d, I’ll buy one when it releases and pop it in and sell the 7800x3d. 

Edited November 6, 2024 by jnr4817

[Blackhawk163]

22 hours ago, jnr4817 said:

I’ve got a 7800x3d, b650 tomahawk, 64g 6200, 4090, m.2 and flying in vr with g2. Happy to do a benchmark run if you can supply a miz. My motherboard supports the 9800x3d, I’ll buy one when it releases and pop it in and sell the 7800x3d. 

 

That be my setup save for the 4090 as I'm using the 4080super, right now it's a toss-up between getting the 9800x3d or just waiting for the 5090 and getting my FPS boost there for VR.

[Winger]

4 hours ago, Blackhawk163 said:

That be my setup save for the 4090 as I'm using the 4080super, right now it's a toss-up between getting the 9800x3d or just waiting for the 5090 and getting my FPS boost there for VR.

For me with m current 14900k ITS Not the 4090 that makes the bottleneck. I am getting CPU bound pretty huge amount of the time

[zildac]

2 hours ago, Winger said:

For me with m current 14900k ITS Not the 4090 that makes the bottleneck. I am getting CPU bound pretty huge amount of the time

Exactly the same for me "CPU bound render thread" (specs in sig)

[Winger]

CPU arrived today. So ill be switching platforms today. Cross your fingers i can switch without reinstalling everything.
Depends on how the switch goes when i can give a summary.

[zildac]

47 minutes ago, Winger said:

CPU arrived today. So ill be switching platforms today. Cross your fingers i can switch without reinstalling everything.
Depends on how the switch goes when i can give a summary.

I think there's a LOT of people (including me) that would like to have a nice detailed comparison of your performance with the 14900K versus the 9800X3D