Roughly what year is our UH-1H modeling?

[Istari6]

I'm just learning the UH-1H, but I'm familiar with many of the DCS fast jets.  When I see features in the DCS Huey like IFF, flare dispensers, the composite main rotor blade, I'm thinking that our Huey is not a Vietnam-era model.  Also, the two "bumps" on the nose appear to be RWR receivers based on some resources, although I don't see any RWR receiver in the cockpit.

Is there any source on roughly what era our Huey is representing?  An early 1980s model?  Late 1970s?  

[Volator]

You can't really pinpoint the year, it's a "Frankenstein" Huey that features elements of different eras (and different operators).

[Istari6]

Interesting.  Maybe that's how they did things back in 2013 when this came out.  I know more recently they've really tried to model a specific model at a specific point in time.  The F-16 is an F-16CM with M4.2 software updates, right around 2007.  

[Kev2go]

On 11/9/2024 at 11:46 AM, Istari6 said:

I'm just learning the UH-1H, but I'm familiar with many of the DCS fast jets.  When I see features in the DCS Huey like IFF, flare dispensers, the composite main rotor blade, I'm thinking that our Huey is not a Vietnam-era model.  Also, the two "bumps" on the nose appear to be RWR receivers based on some resources, although I don't see any RWR receiver in the cockpit.

Is there any source on roughly what era our Huey is representing?  An early 1980s model?  Late 1970s?  

Basically a early 90s Huey. Ignoring frankenstein features like m21 armament system being mounted on a long body huey instead of the short body hueys ( uh1b,c and m)  or m130 chaff/flare dispensers which are only mentioned in eh1  manuals ( electronic warfare variant huey) , but even then it's mounted on fuselage rather then tail. To this day it's a mystery what developers source was on m130s mounted on the  tail.

 

Composite rotorblades not tested until late 80s. The earliest references of them on the uh1h/v operators manual is in a 1990 revision  of the 1988 publication.so maybe composite rotorblades are only being available for replacement  of metal rotors circa gulf war 1. Night vision compatible cockpit is circa 1980s same with apn209 radar altimeter ( although not all hueys had it). Wire strike protection system is standard issue circa 1980s, as is the forward nose of the huey with the 2 caps where its not used but present as a provision to install  sensors for the an/apr39 V1 RWR. the RWR scope display would be installed where the radar altimeter currently is placed, although there were other configurations as per electrionics confugration manual where both radar altimeter and RWR scope display could be present in a different cockpit arrangement ( and would be preffered anyways because the cited configuration allows 2 Radar Altimeters for co pilot and pilot) 

 

A mid to late 90s uh1h on the other hand would be expected to have an/asn175 cugr gps device.

 

Thats my biggest gripe with uh1h. It lacks any real navigation systems, and has an inadequate defensive suites for a late cold war battlefield.

I would have argued even for the 1980s it's very backwards to still be relying on vor ndb and adf as your only navigation systems, when every other major Helicopter aviation asset in US army ( including modernized cobras)  was at least using a ASN 128 Doppler navigation suite as its primary nav source with radio beacon aided navigation like VOR only being a backup aid if said doppler navigation system failed . Some UH1H's allegedly had this system retrofitted as well pre ASn175 CUGR GPS.

In similar timeframe that army hueys got the cugr gps system USMC UH1N's got combined doppler GPS navigation, an/apr39 v2 rwr and by the 2000s when gwot came around the uh1n's got ale47 cm suite and missile warning systems to make it more survivable in a modern battlefield. Tbh UH1N navigation and defensive systems are better then what even us army uh60a and uh60L's had in the comparative timeframe.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Kev2go

[Istari6]

This is excellent.  Thanks for the long-form reply, this is exactly the kind of info i was looking for.  Interesting info on those flare dispensers.  I was wondering about those, given I've never read anything about Hueys using flares.  Also interesting that the radar altimeter wasn't a feature of the cockpit in the Vietnam style scenarios like Reflected's "Paradise Lost" campaign.  

[Kev2go]

I may have to self correct myself. IF we count the 3d model of the door gunners its a late 1990s huey, due to the type of body armor they wear.

The door gunners in Uh1H module appear to be wearing PRU60A body armor.  Airsave was a survival vest adopted in the late 90s? (AIRSAVE manual publication is dated 1999) but aforementioned manual has body armor referenced with in that can be worn underneath the survival vest  ( or without it like in DCS ) The Door gunners PRu60A is only a soft armor type although the manual also had a frontal ceramic plate addon for PRU60A called PRU 61, which isn't present in the crew on DCS version.

 

 

 

 

 

IF they had the add on ceramic plate.

 

 

FLight helmets. Pilots and door gunners have SPH4B helmets which did not get adopted until the early 90s, as a replacement for the earlier SPH4 ( which was retrofitted for NVG mounting in the 80s) Although from my understanding SPH4B's weren't around that long, since a few years later after SPh4B, the HGU56P was adopted into service, and appears to be widespread by the time GWOT kicked off in the early 2000s. HGU56 is what you see in the 3d model of aircrew in the 21st century helicopter modules such as the Ah64D and OH58D.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although actual mounted NVG's are not modelled  on the SPh4B ( presumably due to old age of Uh1H module) if it ever did get a updated 3 makeover the pilots should be wearing AN/AVS 6  aka ANVIS 6 night vision goggles mounted on their helmets.  Those would of already been going into service since at least the late 80s ( probably earlier adoption for 160th Night stalkers) , and would of almost certainly phased out all PVS 5 systems for aviators by the 90s, even for the flying remaining  legacy platforms like the UH1H.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2024 by Kev2go

[NeedzWD40]

On 11/14/2024 at 4:45 PM, Kev2go said:

I would have argued even for the 1980s it's very backwards to still be relying on vor ndb and adf as your only navigation systems, when every other major Helicopter aviation asset in US army ( including modernized cobras)  was at least using a ASN 128 Doppler navigation suite as its primary nav source with radio beacon aided navigation like VOR only being a backup aid if said doppler navigation system failed . Some UH1H's allegedly had this system retrofitted as well pre ASn175 CUGR GPS.

Can't speak for other experiences, but I know a guy who flew UH-1Vs and UH-1Hs in the late 70s-late 80s (also IP for UH-1Hs) and the bulk of them didn't have doppler navigation systems. The DCS H has a lot of equipment normally utilized on the V models as well, like the radar altimeter, which was not often seen on H models in US Army service. On the ASE suite side, the only common piece was the APR-39; not even the sugar scoop and infrared suppression plates were seen that often. Bear in mind that the UH-60 was taking over the bulk of transport/logistic duties in this time frame and UH-1s were being relegated to second line units, so the limitations (as we see them) weren't considered a massive deal.

From what I know, the DCS UH-1H is closest to the configuration utilized in El Salvador, as I've seen references that those aircraft were equipped with radar altimeters, IR suppression, and ALQ-144s. I can only guess the flare packs were included in an effort to abstract the protection given by the disco ball.

[Kev2go]

2 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Can't speak for other experiences, but I know a guy who flew UH-1Vs and UH-1Hs in the late 70s-late 80s (also IP for UH-1Hs) and the bulk of them

2 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Can't speak for other experiences, but I know a guy who flew UH-1Vs and UH-1Hs in the late 70s-late 80s (also IP for UH-1Hs) and the bulk of them didn't have doppler navigation systems. The DCS H has a lot of equipment normally utilized on the V models as well, like the radar altimeter, which was not often seen on H models in US Army service. On the ASE suite side, the only common piece was the APR-39; not even the sugar scoop and infrared suppression plates were seen that often. Bear in mind that the UH-60 was taking over the bulk of transport/logistic duties in this time frame and UH-1s were being relegated to second line units, so the limitations (as we see them) weren't considered a massive deal.

From what I know, the DCS UH-1H is closest to the configuration utilized in El Salvador, as I've seen references that those aircraft were equipped with radar altimeters, IR suppression, and ALQ-144s. I can only guess the flare packs were included in an effort to abstract the protection given by the disco ball.

 

 

 

didn't have doppler navigation systems. The DCS H has a lot of equipment normally utilized on the V models as well, like the radar altimeter, which was not often seen on H models in US Army service. On the ASE suite side, the only common piece was the APR-39; not even the sugar scoop and infrared suppression plates were seen that often. Bear in mind that the UH-60 was taking over the bulk of transport/logistic duties in this time frame and UH-1s were being relegated to second line units, so the limitations (as we see them) weren't considered a massive deal.

From what I know, the DCS UH-1H is closest to the configuration utilized in El Salvador, as I've seen references that those aircraft were equipped with radar altimeters, IR suppression, and ALQ-144s. I can only guess the flare packs were included in an effort to abstract the protection given by the disco ball.

Yes hueys were on thier way out. I know uh60 was the intended replacement but i wonder why bother replacing metal rotors with composite rotor blades after the end of the cold war? 

I remember seeing videos of the dcs uh1h in initial release that it didn't have radar altimeter or countermeasures system , that these got added further in development.

So with that in mind i think the lack of asn128 doppler nav  or asn175 cugr, or the apr39 rwr can be attributed to belsimtek deciding development of extra features  wasn't worth the time based on the $$ sales they had, rather then it due to not being common.

Which is unfortunate, because otherwise the dcs uh1h is a 1990s era helicopter excluding the m21 armament system from the short body hueys.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

The most interesting photo ive found is of a Wisconsin National Guard Uh1V taken in 2008. It appear to have APR39A v1 RWR installed judging by how the scope indicator looks, compared to the original APR39 V1.

APR39 v1 was limited to just having strobe indicators of SAM threats similar to much older RWR's that existed in SEA for fixed wing jets, wheras APR39A v1 was capable of displaying threats with alpha numerics, and included synthetic voice  to call out threats ( IF reference point is needed see RWR in use in the OH58D module or UH60L community mod) 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/1386330

 

The latest manual i found was of the final 2005 revision of the 1988 UH1H/V operators manual, which is also when the last UH1H is retired from active duty use. (although there are national guard units where Uh1H and Uh1V manage to stick around longer) and said 2005 manual only still includes the old APR39 V1 references  but not APR39A v1. So i am left wondering if this was an unofficial field mod if its not documented in the manual or if National guard have seperate manuals after Hueys left active duty service.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Kev2go

[NeedzWD40]

20 hours ago, Kev2go said:

Yes hueys were on thier way out. I know uh60 was the intended replacement but i wonder why bother replacing metal rotors with composite rotor blades after the end of the cold war? 

I remember seeing videos of the dcs uh1h in initial release that it didn't have radar altimeter or countermeasures system , that these got added further in development.

So with that in mind i think the lack of asn128 doppler nav  or asn175 cugr, or the apr39 rwr can be attributed to belsimtek deciding development of extra features  wasn't worth the time based on the $$ sales they had, rather then it due to not being common.

Which is unfortunate, because otherwise the dcs uh1h is a 1990s era helicopter excluding the m21 armament system from the short body hueys.

Most of that was done for foreign military sales rather than US DOD use. The composite blades tend to be a lot more efficient (beyond the advantages given in RCS) as well as saving weight. Most of the guys I've talked to never saw anything more advanced than a paper map and a compass for US Army UH-1s, including those still operating in the 90s. As you know, a handful that were kept around into the 2000s got some unique upgrades, but these wouldn't be common in the fleet. The only common piece of equipment would've been the APR-39, and from what I've been told that was due to the immense concern regarding the ZSU-23-4.

For foreign users, I can't speak in that regard because most information I've seen indicates a whole mishmash of equipment beyond DOD spec. Sometimes they'd opt for DOD upgrades and sometimes not; the best example I can give there is the Pakistani AH-1Fs which got AN/AVR-2, something the US Army fleet were never equipped with. You can find references to this in the distro A AH-1F manual, which was likely modified specifically for FMS.

My feeling is that Belsimtek likely wanted to do a UH-1M of Vietnam vintage over a UH-1H, but perhaps had difficulty in obtaining the necessary documentation for that specific variant.

[Kev2go]

On 11/17/2024 at 5:00 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

Most of that was done for foreign military sales rather than US DOD use. The composite blades tend to be a lot more efficient (beyond the advantages given in RCS) as well as saving weight. Most of the guys I've talked to never saw anything more advanced than a paper map and a compass for US Army UH-1s, including those still operating in the 90s. As you know, a handful that were kept around into the 2000s got some unique upgrades, but these wouldn't be common in the fleet. The only common piece of equipment would've been the APR-39, and from what I've been told that was due to the immense concern regarding the ZSU-23-4.

For foreign users, I can't speak in that regard because most information I've seen indicates a whole mishmash of equipment beyond DOD spec. Sometimes they'd opt for DOD upgrades and sometimes not; the best example I can give there is the Pakistani AH-1Fs which got AN/AVR-2, something the US Army fleet were never equipped with. You can find references to this in the distro A AH-1F manual, which was likely modified specifically for FMS.

 

Foreign users generally have thier own separate manuals. Like For example the F16AM MLU dash 1  and Dash 34 is floating out there for Chilean air force or the F16C block 50 dash 1 and Dash34's for the Hellenic Air force. All of the stuff i founded regarding Uh1H was taken from the Uh1H/V manuals published specifically for the US army, not any foreign variant. All of the stuff i mentioned was officially available for US army US regardless how common  or uncommon it was.

it should also be noted that Bell offered Uh1H II upgrade program that included some features from twin huey (212)  plus a 1800 SHP engine to many of these foreign users that had all these retired surplus hueys dumped on them.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 5:00 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

My feeling is that Belsimtek likely wanted to do a UH-1M of Vietnam vintage over a UH-1H, but perhaps had difficulty in obtaining the necessary documentation for that specific variant.

UH1C/M operators manual published 1980 is still floating around. IF they had really wanted to do a short body they could have done it.....

Edited November 19, 2024 by Kev2go

[Kev2go]

Here are some examples of a UH1H with APN 209 radar altimeter mounted in same place as  in the DCS UH1H. according to the latter video title this UH1H was part of 3rd battalion 159th aviation regiment ( which is a aviation unit of the 101st Airborne) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THis article from 1999 mentioned AN/ASN175 was going to be retrofit in the majority of remaining UH1H/V helicopter fleet, which coincides with the introduction of the same body armor the door gunners  are wearing in the DCS UH1H (PRU61A)

 

https://armyaviationmagazine.com/images/archive/backissues/1999/99_06.pdf

page 41 of 45

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Kev2go

[NeedzWD40]

On 11/17/2024 at 8:41 PM, Kev2go said:

 

Foreign users generally have thier own separate manuals. Like For example the F16AM MLU dash 1  and Dash 34 is floating out there for Chilean air force or the F16C block 50 dash 1 and Dash34's for the Hellenic Air force. All of the stuff i founded regarding Uh1H was taken from the Uh1H/V manuals published specifically for the US army, not any foreign variant. All of the stuff i mentioned was officially available for US army US regardless how common  or uncommon it was.

it should also be noted that Bell offered Uh1H II upgrade program that included some features from twin huey (212)  plus a 1800 SHP engine to many of these foreign users that had all these retired surplus hueys dumped on them.

 

UH1C/M operators manual published 1980 is still floating around. IF they had really wanted to do a short body they could have done it.....

I think there's a misunderstanding in what the UH-1H/V manual entails. The details there are not that every aircraft absolutely had every upgrade or system as described, but that one may encounter aircraft with various combinations of those systems. I talked to a few people about this and this was true within a lot of units, where some UH-1Hs were still running old Vietnam era radio heads alongside newer aircraft with newer radio heads. Thus, the manuals needed to reflect operation of both types to cover what aircrew might've encountered in their careers.

I had a quick gander at my copy of the manual and I can definitely say the vast majority of systems (especially GPS/nav related) are post 2000s done to UH-1Vs, not UH-1Hs. There were ~150 remaining in service in various Guard units for quite a few years and these were upgraded for domestic purposes, not for frontline use. Now, such wouldn't be impossible, but extremely unlikely. Army Aviation had also intended to phase out all of the UH-1s in active, reserve, and Guard fleets by '04, but this didn't happen for a variety of reasons.

In addition, a number were also retained in Army service, but were not in active, reserve, or Guard units, ie White Sands Missile Range retained a number of UH-1Hs that were upgraded in various ways, including those detailed in the manual. A few things to take a look at:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/658918/L

On this aircraft, an HF radio was added, but it also has the telltale GPS antenna installation near the upper wire cutter.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/559964/L

This is another example but lacks the GPS upgrade, yet it has the sugar scoop exhaust.

Another example with the GPS mount near the top wire cutter, this example has of course been retired.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/1386330/L

Here's a cockpit example from the WIARNG, where you can see a lot of the newer equipment as described in the manual. Note that the placement of equipment like the radar altimeter is also different, having been moved to the right side of the dash, as well as the copilot's side having a radar altimeter head. There were not many aircraft in this configuration (remember that the original number of UH-1Vs converted were 200 examples).

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/1148799/L

Another example, but this time with a different navigation system in the center console, but one you'll also see described in the manual. Note that the radar altimeter is in the same spot as on the previous aircraft, but there is no APR-39 display. This aircraft belonged to the ARARNG and now is on a post near the ARARNG HQ.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1H-Iroquois-205/1566135/L

Another example because it shows a winch setup as well as the GPS antenna. This aircraft belonged to the RIARNG.

White Sands test aircraft. Note the GPS antenna again. This is of course not a line aircraft.

On 11/17/2024 at 8:47 PM, Kev2go said:

Here are some examples of a UH1H with APN 209 radar altimeter mounted in same place as  in the DCS UH1H. according to the latter video title this UH1H was part of 3rd battalion 159th aviation regiment ( which is a aviation unit of the 101st Airborne) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THis article from 1999 mentioned AN/ASN175 was going to be retrofit in the majority of remaining UH1H/V helicopter fleet, which coincides with the introduction of the same body armor the door gunners  are wearing in the DCS UH1H (PRU61A)

 

https://armyaviationmagazine.com/images/archive/backissues/1999/99_06.pdf

page 41 of 45

 

So these are some good examples of aircraft that may have been upgraded specifically for that unit, purpose, or deployment. It could just be that particular company had radar altimeters installed (or just the aircraft in the video!), perhaps the battalion; it's hard to speculate because again, the UH-1H didn't have a radar altimeter spec'd as standard. This doesn't mean it couldn't, just that if you took a typical line aircraft, you weren't likely to find one. Take for example this UH-1H in US Army service in El Salvador in the 90s:

Note the disco ball at the tailboom, the sugar scoop exhaust, and heat diffusing plates by the engine and below the base of the tail. Supposedly these aircraft were also configured with a radar altimeter, but I've never seen confirmation of such. Note also the HF radio antenna.

None of this is to say it's impossible to have a UH-1H with GPS, doppler nav, radar altimeter, HF antenna, gunpods, etc., just that for US Army service, it'd be very rare. The bulk of your UH-1Hs are going to be a standard config lacking any of this equipment. The only real standard I've seen and heard from those who've been there and done that has been the APR-39, which was also considered a mixed bag (the description given to me was something along the lines of a massive injury to one's donkey).

If you're asking me, I'd like the UH-1H configured as in the El Salvador deployment, since it offers the most flexibility. But as long as we're wishing, might as well as for a UH-60 of some make -- even a UH-60A upgraded to 2015 standards.

[Kev2go]

On 11/22/2024 at 6:43 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

I think there's a misunderstanding in what the UH-1H/V manual entails. The details there are not that every aircraft absolutely had every upgrade or system as described, but that one may encounter aircraft with various combinations of those systems. I talked to a few people about this and this was true within a lot of units, where some UH-1Hs were still running old Vietnam era radio heads alongside newer aircraft with newer radio heads. Thus, the manuals needed to reflect operation of both types to cover what aircrew might've encountered in their careers.

I had a quick gander at my copy of the manual and I can definitely say the vast majority of systems (especially GPS/nav related) are post 2000s done to UH-1Vs, not UH-1Hs. There were ~150 remaining in service in various Guard units for quite a few years and these were upgraded for domestic purposes, not for frontline use. Now, such wouldn't be impossible, but extremely unlikely. Army Aviation had also intended to phase out all of the UH-1s in active, reserve, and Guard fleets by '04, but this didn't happen for a variety of reasons.

In addition, a number were also retained in Army service, but were not in active, reserve, or Guard units, ie White Sands Missile Range retained a number of UH-1Hs that were upgraded in various ways, including those detailed in the manual. A few things to take a look at:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/658918/L

On this aircraft, an HF radio was added, but it also has the telltale GPS antenna installation near the upper wire cutter.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/559964/L

This is another example but lacks the GPS upgrade, yet it has the sugar scoop exhaust.

Another example with the GPS mount near the top wire cutter, this example has of course been retired.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/1386330/L

Here's a cockpit example from the WIARNG, where you can see a lot of the newer equipment as described in the manual. Note that the placement of equipment like the radar altimeter is also different, having been moved to the right side of the dash, as well as the copilot's side having a radar altimeter head. There were not many aircraft in this configuration (remember that the original number of UH-1Vs converted were 200 examples).

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1V-Iroquois-205/1148799/L

 

Yes i also mentioned this less common configuration existing with Uh1's based on information i found in electronics configuration manual and was the configuration of the image i had posted earlier. A Wisconsin national guard Uh1V with its cockpit photo being taken in 2008 . 200 Uh1V  is still significant enough of a number. Its 181 more then the total amount of Ka50's produced, and yet that exists as a module in DCS, even in spite such a small number of aircraft also having varying configurations.

. Ive also found photos pf whats claimed to be  Uh1H with less common Uh1V type configuration, but with radar altimeters removed, since these retired from military service.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10597054

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8520588

 

On 11/22/2024 at 6:43 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

Another example, but this time with a different navigation system in the center console, but one you'll also see described in the manual. Note that the radar altimeter is in the same spot as on the previous aircraft, but there is no APR-39 display. This aircraft belonged to the ARARNG and now is on a post near the ARARNG HQ.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Army/Bell-UH-1H-Iroquois-205/1566135/L

Another example because it shows a winch setup as well as the GPS antenna. This aircraft belonged to the RIARNG.

White Sands test aircraft. Note the GPS antenna again. This is of course not a line aircraft.

So these are some good examples of aircraft that may have been upgraded specifically for that unit, purpose, or deployment. It could just be that particular company had radar altimeters installed (or just the aircraft in the video!), perhaps the battalion; it's hard to speculate because again, the UH-1H didn't have a radar altimeter spec'd as standard. This doesn't mean it couldn't, just that if you took a typical line aircraft, you weren't likely to find one. Take for example this UH-1H in US Army service in El Salvador in the 90s:

Note the disco ball at the tailboom, the sugar scoop exhaust, and heat diffusing plates by the engine and below the base of the tail. Supposedly these aircraft were also configured with a radar altimeter, but I've never seen confirmation of such. Note also the HF radio antenna.

None of this is to say it's impossible to have a UH-1H with GPS, doppler nav, radar altimeter, HF antenna, gunpods, etc., just that for US Army service, it'd be very rare. The bulk of your UH-1Hs are going to be a standard config lacking any of this equipment. The only real standard I've seen and heard from those who've been there and done that has been the APR-39, which was also considered a mixed bag (the description given to me was something along the lines of a massive injury to one's donkey).

If you're asking me, I'd like the UH-1H configured as in the El Salvador deployment, since it offers the most flexibility.

No one is saying uh1h is a frontline aircraft post cold war, but  thats the time setting the dcs huey is already represented in.  AS already established we have upt until 1990s era features included into the DCS uh1H , so arguing that a huey should not get Xyz feature because it represents an era of non combat frontline use in the post cold era just doesn't fly.For the sake of usability it would of just made more sense to have an option for an/asn175 cugr since it is a standalone GPS device,  Not to mentioned you already have a tail end of the 1990s aircrew judging by the body armor the door gunners wearing. Even the dcs mi8 module got a integrated ns430 addon, and that's just a off the shelf civilian GPS not commercially available until 1997.  It was not an official adoption issue of Russian military.  At least the ASN 175 was officially adopted and installed in UH1H/V's, rather then just being a 1 off  field modification out of a pilots personal pockets who wanted better navaid, or only something retrofitted post military retirement and only used in civil aviation.

 

The ircm mount isn't mentioned in the Uh1H/V 1988 ( or later) manuals, although i haven't come across any earlier ones to compare. Either this feature was deleted by 1988 or it was a field mod that was only tried in the aforementioned deployment, and never updated in the UH1H/V manuals . Ive only read about ALQ-144 IRCM  installation referenced in the EH1H/X  1983  manual( 1989 revision)  which is the dedicated EW variant of the UH1H.

The An/Apr39 for something that was allegedly super common doesn't appear in many photos or video recordings taken of UH1H/V's in action.

The below image image is from Valkenburg taken on 21st of November 1990. These birds were going to be flown to the ports in Rotterdam, the last hub before being shipped off to the Gulf for ODS. I can only make out 1 of these hueys appearing to have APr39 sensor mounts installed. 

 

On 11/22/2024 at 6:43 PM, NeedzWD40 said:

 

But as long as we're wishing, might as well as for a UH-60 of some make -- even a UH-60A upgraded to 2015 standards.

Not really fair to try to compare wish listing of features that can be added with a hypothetical Uh1H model update ( and aught to have of been originally included) such as  ASN/175 CUGR standalone GPS in a UH1H huey cockpit  to the equivalent of asking for a totally different helicopter like the Uh60.

Like its not controversial to just have multiple configurations of the same helicopter/ Oh58D has a legacy configuration with IRCM, or the 2011+ era configuration that replaced IRCM with CWMS and  also includes L2M ( drone ) functionality. Just like Mi8 module if you own the NS430 addon, you have checkbox for whether to mount the GPS receiver or not.

 

I Dont have a 2015 Uh60A/L manual on hand but looking at the 2009 publication of the Uh60A/UH60L operators manual its still basically the same helicopter avionics wise as what in the  Uh60A/Uh60L 1996 manual (2001 revision) with the exception of the AN/ASN-128D doppler GPS  replacing the ASN-128B Doppler GPS. The CDU for the nav system have the same format, its a marginal upgrade. 

The only other difference that comes to mind is that Uh60A's eventually(  UH60A+) are refitted with the 701C engines that Uh60L were installed with from the get go. The 2009 publication includes performance charts for both Ge 701C and now GE 701D engines, so presumably some Uh60's were upgraded with the engines from the UH60M, but otherwise retaining the old-school avionics.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Kev2go

[IJammer]

The Nam map and a sixties Huey is all we need...! Let's get to it...