cannot reproduce The F18C suddenly roles over and assume an erratic behaviour during game play.

[RedHot]

This started to happen lately, and semes to a random thing. Without warning, the F18 starts behaving strange during missions. It could be oscillating movements, or just rolling over violently. When this happens the FCS system just does not work anymore, so I cannot correct anything. It ends up with me crashing, without being able to complete the mission.

Is this a bug with the new FCS model, or am I doing something wrong ?

[razo+r]

Do you have a short track?

Does it happen in one specific mission or everyone?

Is random failures enabled in your game setting or in the mission setting?

Does the debriefing say anything about faults?

[rob10]

Track would be good.  Any chance you have a controller or USB port that's randomly starting to give you unintended inputs?  I'd fly with the input indicator showing so you can see if anything is showing up weird there.  Not a widespread issue you're having.

[RedHot]

It happens across multiple missions and maps -Nevada and Kola

Random failures in game settings, is not checked

The debriefing does not indicate spesific damage or fault.

When it happens, I loose all flight controls. Neiter stick or rudder works, meaning the cockpit freezes

[razo+r]

Upload a short track, preferably on caucasus.

[Muchocracker]

Post a track or we can do nothing to diagnose the issue

[Phantom711]

First thing to check is if DCS has assigned the pitch and roll axis to another controller additionally.

[rob10]

16 hours ago, RedHot said:

It happens across multiple missions and maps -Nevada and Kola

Random failures in game settings, is not checked

The debriefing does not indicate spesific damage or fault.

When it happens, I loose all flight controls. Neiter stick or rudder works, meaning the cockpit freezes

Check that Windows isn't putting your USB ports to sleep.  That sounds like you're losing your connection with stick and rudders.

[raus]

Maybe I experienced the same.. yesterday night, after a 1:30h MP flight, when entering initial in parade formation at 800ft, my hornet suddenly rolled left, some 160° or so, and went into the soup , total loss of control, no way to recover. 

[AndyJWest]

I had much the same thing yesterday, after the latest update. The in-cockpit stick kept flicking to the right, while I was about to land.. No duplicate control bindings. Nothing wrong with my joystick outputs, according to the Windows game controller properties dialog.

[Muchocracker]

if tracks aren't posted then we can't diagnose the issue guys 

[Lord Vader]

Please understand that we require track replays to understand what is being done at the moment of the alleged bug.

Sometimes these "bugs" can be caused by wrong procedures, for example, and we need to verify the conditions.

[raus]

Woud a 1h30min track be helpful? Cause that is roughly the point in time when I had it happening. It was multiplayer flight, so I could look for it...

[Lord Vader]

It depends, @raus, lengthy multiplayer tracks often can't be used for debugging, unfortunately, especially if servers use scripts or mods.

If there is an actual problem with the aircraft response, then it's probably reproducing in a shorter scenario. If so, let us know.
So many issues can happen, from damage on the aircraft, to wake turbulence, there could be a problem but it depends a lot on the circumstances. That's why we need a track. 

[Grodin]

Here is a track, not sure if this is the same issue as the op but this made me roll over and fall off the sky a few times in a multiplayer.

 

Its a bit lenghty track, just fast forward to the part where i put the autopilot on to orbit and use Alt+F9 to look at the LSO station. Originally i stayed in the LSO position for a while and when i returned to the F1 view the plane had 100% full left rudder trim  - and i dont have any rudder trim buttons or axises assigned to the controls and i double checked that my pedals were centered even during this bug and they were, it seems like a trim thing.

 

In this track you can see after the plane has orbited a while on autopilot the rudder suddenly goes to 100% left even tho my rudder axis was dead center in the controls, i checked it multiple times, yet the plane for some reason forced 100% left rudder.

 

This happened multiple times in different sessions but the only common thing i could think of is using the LSO/Airboss views while simultaneously leaving my plane on autopilot, those are the only situations this has happened. That 100% left rudder during a slow speed left turn could roll the plane over quite easily.

 

I also added a video of the exact moment it happens, i think this originally happened exactly at the moment when i returned from Alt+F9 view to F1 view. The rudder just goes over to 100% left smoothly and stays there.

 

I can counter it by giving it right rudder but it returns to 100% left as soon as i let the pedals center. Not a hardware issue since the options screen shows it is in the middle and as soon as i pick another slot the rudder is straight.

trim.trk

Edited December 12, 2024 by Grodin

[Lord Vader]

Hello @Grodin

Thank you for the track. Indeed I can see the induced rudder input in that track.
However, I cannot reproduce this, even following your steps in a singleplayer or multiplayer session. Entering and leaving the LSO station back to the cockpit, no change was observed on a rudder. This was tested on a mission created from scratch with just a F/A-18C and a SuperCarrier. 

I created an aerial hot start above the carrier, initiated a left turn, trimmed it, then hit ALT+F9 for view the LSO station and back via F1. Did I miss a step?

Also, can you reproduce this in a simple singleplayer mission? 

[Grodin]

4 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Hello @Grodin

Thank you for the track. Indeed I can see the induced rudder input in that track.
However, I cannot reproduce this, even following your steps in a singleplayer or multiplayer session. Entering and leaving the LSO station back to the cockpit, no change was observed on a rudder. This was tested on a mission created from scratch with just a F/A-18C and a SuperCarrier. 

I created an aerial hot start above the carrier, initiated a left turn, trimmed it, then hit ALT+F9 for view the LSO station and back via F1. Did I miss a step?

Also, can you reproduce this in a simple singleplayer mission? 

It happened on another occasion while i was sitting at the catapult and using the airboss view, going back to f1 view i noticed the same 100% left rudder thing again. It happens at the very exact moment i press F1 during i'm at the airboss station actually. In this track the left rudder happens at about time 08:10:00 (10 minutes to the track) and i was looking from the airboss station for multiple minutes before and after it happened. Forcing F1 view during the replay you can see when it happens and without forcing the view you can see im just looking around the airboss station when it happens.

Unfortunately unable to reproduce intentionally so far, had one player with me messing around the carrier both times.

In this mission there is nothing fancy going on, no triggers or anything, just a carrier, 2 player hornets, awacs and a tanker.

server-20241211-235342.trk

Edited December 12, 2024 by Grodin

[Grodin]

And here as a video what happens on my end if the track doesnt show it. Exactly the same smooth movement to 100% left rudder and it stays there and it happens when im not in the cockpit F1 view but in the airboss view when this happens.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Grodin

[Lord Vader]

Hey @Grodin

These chimes we're earing in your video replay, aren't these Windows device connection/disconnection sounds?

In any case, we've reviewed your tracks using our internal analysis and concluded the system is just correctly responding to an input. This means there could be an issue with your own control inputs. Please check the following:

1- Your assignments are correct and you don't have multiple axis or buttons assigned to rudder input, including other hardware devices, such as gamepads, you may have connected to your PC.
2- Your hardware is fully working, properly calibrated and not having axis spikes.

If the above is ok, please try deleting all rudder axis assignments and even move the assignment lua file (you can move it back if you see no difference) to rebind your controls. 

After that, let us know if the problems persist. 

[Grodin]

4 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Hey @Grodin

These chimes we're earing in your video replay, aren't these Windows device connection/disconnection sounds?

In any case, we've reviewed your tracks using our internal analysis and concluded the system is just correctly responding to an input. This means there could be an issue with your own control inputs. Please check the following:

1- Your assignments are correct and you don't have multiple axis or buttons assigned to rudder input, including other hardware devices, such as gamepads, you may have connected to your PC.
2- Your hardware is fully working, properly calibrated and not having axis spikes.

If the above is ok, please try deleting all rudder axis assignments and even move the assignment lua file (you can move it back if you see no difference) to rebind your controls. 

After that, let us know if the problems persist. 

Hey,

the video is recorded from the replay track on my monitor and the connect/disconnect sound is my Quest 3 constantly connecting/disconnecting when it is turned off and connected to the PC, it's a Quest bug thats been around for a while and it stops whenever the headset is actually turned on and im playing. No connect/disconnect messages in DCS (there is a popup if a controller disconnects during play).

Wish there was a way to debug the trackfile for what exactly is giving the rudder input, i double checked my configs and there is nothing assigned to any rudder inputs except my pedals.

 

Next time when it happens i will try to record the axis configuration window in the options and then we can compare the rudder axis position the the control input box on the left but i swear i checked it both times when it happened and as soon as i respawned on a new plane the rudder was back to normal.

[Grodin]

Not sure if im onto something but any ideas about this.

 

The "WINWING Orion Joystick Base 2 + JGRIP-F16 {393E1620-AE58-11ef-8001-444553540000}.diff" has this line in it:

        ["a2003cdnil"] = {
            ["name"] = "Rudder",
            ["removed"] = {
                [1] = {
                    ["key"] = "JOY_RZ",
                },
            },
        },

But in the DCS options the Joystick Base does not have anything assigned to the RZ axis, rudder is only mapped to pedals.

 

However, funnily enough, the pedals axis is also called "JOY_RZ" and the "JOY_RZ" axis in the stick is that wierd spring loaded auxiliary trigger axis lever that just so happens to default in to a such position that _IF_ i was to assign that axis to a rudder it would force the rudder full left.

Now i did not make any changes to the DCS options after this issue appeared, that axis is not and never was bound to a rudder in the DCS axis assignment for me, 100% sure about that, but would it be possible that either DCS or the winwing software gets the pedals and stick RZ axis mixed up sometimes in some specific situation. I have noticed that plugging winwing devices to the same USB hub gets them all mixed up and they cant be used like that so it wouldnt suprise me if they had some odd stuff going on in the winwing app.

Still doesnt explain why it only happens sometimes and why the rudder axis appeared centered in the options even during the issue.

Edited December 13, 2024 by Grodin

[Grodin]

Just an update this issue has not happened again for me after i plugged each Winwing device to their own USB port instead of a USB hub so for me this seems like a winwing firmware issue. It seems like sometimes winwing devices with similiarly named axises get mixeded up when plugged to same hub.

 

Sorry for the trouble, never did i imagine this kind of issue could be because of something like this but apparently anything is possible with spaghetti firmware.