30mm ammo problems.

[Kuro6]

I have noticed some problems with the cannon ammo.

 

The HE-T round which is supposed to be used against unarmored vehicles, infantry, and aircraft seems to go through armored BMP-2's like they were nothing. One burst from my cannon with HE blows them up. Yet when I hit the same BMP's with the AP-T, I can shoot and shoot and shoot, and it hardly does anything. Sometimes nothing at all.

 

The HE shouldn't penetrate BMP-2 armor at all. Its just a mine shell filled with high explosive gel. The AP should penetrate up to 16mm of armor which is what the BMP-2 has. I was firing at it at about 1.5 km.

[slug88]

This is a known issue, and it's been stated that HE power has been tweaked for the patch. So, I think the AP will remain about as effective as it is now (one or two bursts usually sufficient to take out a BMP), while the HE effect will be greatly reduced. Seems about right to me.

 

By the way, my experience with AP rounds against BMP's is quite a bit different from yours. What I've seen is that it usually takes on the order of 5 AP hits to get a fire going. I've never been unable to take one out with AP. Incidentally, I actually took out an Abrams with the 30mm AP the other night in multiplayer. It took about 10 rounds from 500m, firing down directly onto the top turret armor. The Abrams was previously damaged by nearby 80mm rocket impacts, however.

[Golgotha]

I have noticed some problems with the cannon ammo.

 

The HE-T round which is supposed to be used against unarmored vehicles, infantry, and aircraft seems to go through armored BMP-2's like they were nothing. One burst from my cannon with HE blows them up. Yet when I hit the same BMP's with the AP-T, I can shoot and shoot and shoot, and it hardly does anything. Sometimes nothing at all.

 

The HE shouldn't penetrate BMP-2 armor at all. Its just a mine shell filled with high explosive gel. The AP should penetrate up to 16mm of armor which is what the BMP-2 has. I was firing at it at about 1.5 km.

 

I did reply to another similar thread, so a short one here. The 30mm Rarden gun on the CVR[T] Scimitar, in my day used HE and Armour Piercing Secondary Effect [APSE], this was prior to the development of APDS rounds that were loaded succesfully. In my time they failed as the loading process inside the weapon, was quite complicated. The APSE round is an AP penetrator, with a phosphorus bursting charge, which was supposed to go off, inside the lightly armoured vehicles like the BMP series. The reason that this was selected was that often AP rounds will pass right through the light armour, with no noticable effect, except a tiny flash, unless it hit something like fuel or ammo, which would create the customery whoosh of flame. From reading reports on the use of the 105mm armed Centurion, by Isreal during the six day war, they experienced the same effect on MBT's when using AP and afterwardswelded the holes, hosed the crew remains out and then put the vehicle back into action. So the AP rounds act in Black Shark, exactly as they would, unless the developers have put in the areas of the fuel tanks and you hit them directly. 50 Cal HMG rounds will also slice through lighter armoured vehicles, without them bursting into flames.

 

John

[Logan9773]

Well, I don't think HE rounds should affect 16mm armor at all. The APC should just be able to brush them off. It might be able to screw up its track links if powerful enough, but I don't know. Its basically just a high velocity 30mm grenade that can punch through thin sheet metal, windows, etc. I've read its also linked in with AP-T to kill or wound any supporting infantry that are close to a tank that is being fired on. As for the AP, its really hard to tell if its hitting the target. Only in the later bursts could I see it was hitting the target. I see max range on the cannon is 2000 meters, but I'm wondering if I needed to be closer to engage the BMP as its 16mm of armor is the max penetration limit of the 30mm AP-T.

 

I think more work needs to be done on penetration of armor in this sim. Especially when it comes to where the round hit and was the armor weakened by another round earlier at that point.

 

Also, when we get in close, can we designate parts of the tank to hit with the tracking gates on the shkval, instead of just the whole tank? Like the back part of the tank and the top? Tread area, etc.

 

EDIT: This is Kuro6, I seem to have an older name on this site that I keep getting linked with. Have to figure it out later.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Logan9773

[Guest Herbie.no]

Is it just me, or does the 30mm HP still shred through BMP armor after the patch? I mean, those things only take 1 or 2 shots and they are aflame.

[L4key]

And I have a quick (lazy) question too - if the selector switch is down is that HE or AP? Thx!

[Allo]

Up is HE(High Explosive).

Down is API(Armour-Pearcing Incendiary).

[Kenan]

Its basically just a high velocity 30mm grenade that can punch through thin sheet metal, windows, etc.

 

Sheet metal? Windows? My air rifle pellets can punch holes thru those, I think you're bit underestimating the HE round:

 

There's a big difference between a normal (hand held) grenade and this sucker and that's velocity. So, not only you have the explosion factor, you also have a force that goes with it and that makes the HE 30mm a bit more potent and capable of more then just drilling holes thru sheet metal and glass..

 

I believe ED knew what they were doing when they were modelling the round, had their sources etc. I doubt they just tried to guess things from their own perspective..

[Maulkin]

I suggest for a test you try firing the rounds at a stationary aircraft. I tried that against a Hind that was landed (so was I for that matter) and the AP rounds barely made any affect to the physical appearance and the Hind looked untouched except for a few small holes. Switched to HE and the first shot blew it in half. The only rationale I could come up with is that the AP rounds are passing right through the aircraft.... but I fired at least 100 rounds. I only needed about 5 rounds of HE to completely destroy the Hind.

[Martillo1]

Read about the battle in the Gulf of Leyte. It is reported that penetrating ammunition did not exploded when shooted at weeker armours. It just went through.

 

I would use AP just for MBT and similar.