not possible Force Trim Release REVERSED to joy axis - no more pitch jumps!

[dmatt76]

The big problem with centered spring joystick is when you trim and go back to the center with the stick, you have big jumps in pitch. 

Requesting a reversed trim action to joy axis while holidng the Force Trim Release. In straight flight, when you have your joystick forward, you press and hold force trim, then you move the stick to the center. While moving the joy axis, it is like you are still holding the stick forward and the trim moves to the place when was the stick while flying forward. When you reach the center position you release the force trim and you have forward flight trimmed with the stick centered without any changes in pitch, the helicopter can fly stable as a rock.

I would like to see in the DCS helicopters the reversed axis trim, it would make flying for all the centered spring joystick usrs much better,

Edited December 27, 2024 by Raptor9
Rule 1.15

[Raptor9]

Please be mindful of the forum rules when making gameplay wishlist threads or posts. Thanks.

[admiki]

Isn't this how center trim option works?

[Lixma 06]

19 minutes ago, admiki said:

Isn't this how center trim option works?

Seems to be.

Dmatt, go to the Apache's special options and select 'Central Position Mode' in the trim options.

[dmatt76]

1 hour ago, admiki said:

Isn't this how center trim option works?

No, it is not the same. It is not about setting trim when you return to center, it is about trim position working opposite to joy axis while blocking the axis move - it is much more fluent and smooth. Works like magic with centered spring, there is absolutely no abrupt changes in pitch whatever you do like in the Apache now.

Edited December 27, 2024 by dmatt76

[admiki]

Sorry, I am not following what you are saying.

[Lixma 06]

54 minutes ago, dmatt76 said:

It is not about setting trim when you return to center

'Central Position' trim mode does not do what you're describing.

Please enable central mode in special options and try it - I think it's what you want. Otherwise I don't understand what you're requesting.

[dmatt76]

Quote

I have the Apache since day one, tried all the options.

yeah, I included a video how it works in other sim everyone is foribiden to mention here, even it is completely different, so it got deleted...
I have the Apache since day one, tried all the options. It works similiar, but when you want go back with the trim to the center it is not so easy in the Apache, because you will always pitch up.

Let's hope there are open minded people who do notice good ideas and bring them to DCS too.

 

 

[Raptor9]

@dmatt76, what you are asking is not feasible. It would create a conflict with regard to how the logic within the AH-64D's Flight Management Computer functions. If the force trim release was just a force trim release and nothing more, it may be feasible. However, the force trim in the AH-64D interacts with the FMC in several ways that would make your suggestion invalid.

This would not be isolated to the AH-64D; other helicopters that include flight control systems based on the interaction with force trim, such as the Ka-50 or CH-47, would likewise encounter conflicts within their logic. To be clear, these logic conflicts are not based on DCS gameplay or hardware interaction, but rather how the real-life flight control systems function.

[Floyd1212]

1 hour ago, dmatt76 said:

It works similiar, but when you want go back with the trim to the center it is not so easy in the Apache, because you will always pitch up.

Maybe you are referring to Force Trim Reset? As when you are trimmed out for forward flight and want to reset the trimmed position back to center? This makes sense with your mention of a “pitching up” behavior. 

[dmatt76]

Reset is reset - simple as it is

This is INSTANT trim, maybe a better word instead of "reversed" is "mirrored"

you hold the force trim release, then:
- steering of the aircraft is disabled
- when you move the stick, the trim position is simultaneously moved in the opposite direction
e.g.
- you move the stick forward, the trim position goes backward the same distance, and every other way around
- if you move the stick from forward to center, the trim goes from center to forward = you have centered stick and trimmed in forward flight
- if you move the stick from center to forward, the trim starts to go back to center, you can release it halfway and meet the trim and the stick position at the same place
- then you can move stick forward and trim goes to the center - you have neutral trim and you are ready for landing without any harsh pitch change

So it is like in the mirror, when you move your hand left and your reflection moves to it to the right
Works great while trimming 

[admiki]

 

Would you mind to show us your trim bindings and special options for Apache?

Edited December 28, 2024 by admiki

[Floyd1212]

I think I get what he is asking for, it just isn't the way the FTR works in the Apache, or any other helo really.

He wants a button on his cyclic that for as long as he is holding it, the x and y axis from his joystick is "disconnected" from DCS, and he can move his stick around freely without affecting the helo in game, then when he releases the button the axis are "reconnected" to DCS and his new joystick position is translated to where it was in game before he pressed the "disconnect" button.

You could probably accomplish this outside of the game with vJoy and Joystick Gremlin, interrupting the x and y axis for as long as you are holding a specific button, and then as part of a macro when you release the button you would send a quick FTR press to DCS before reconnecting the x and y axis.

I set something like this up in conjunction with Force Trim Reset to allow me to get my joystick back in the general position the sim was expecting it, before resetting the trim, and it worked great.  I can dig up the post I made about how I set it up @dmatt76 if you are interested in tackling this outside of DCS itself.