Dragon1-1 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 No need to make the F-35 more OP, I think. It'll be bad enough trying to fight it without radar.
felixx75 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: No need to make the F-35 more OP, I think. It'll be bad enough trying to fight it without radar. An F-35 is basically not "OP" (just like every other module in DCS is not "OP" either). How could it be? It is what it is. DCS is not suited to provide balanced PvP due to the nature of a simulation, as the aircraft were always designed to be superior to their counterparts (or at least they were planned that way). The only way to get balanced PvP in DCS is to use artificial restrictions. In addition, each mission builder can decide which modules are available in the mission and which are not. 3
Furiz Posted February 8 Posted February 8 10 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: No need to make the F-35 more OP, I think. It'll be bad enough trying to fight it without radar. Planes in DCS are not more OP or less OP, they are made as realistic as they can be. 1
Dragon1-1 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, felixx75 said: The only way to get balanced PvP in DCS is to use artificial restrictions. In addition, each mission builder can decide which modules are available in the mission and which are not. Yeah, and that's why you generally don't see MiG-15s and F-86s flying around where Fox 3 platforms are around. The only thing they could do in such an environment is act as bombers against undefended targets. A realistic F-35 will be to the MiG-29 what the MiG is to the F-86. 1 hour ago, Furiz said: Planes in DCS are not more OP or less OP, they are made as realistic as they can be. I know, but this doesn't stop the F-35 from being OP. It is so IRL, but since we have no other 5th gen fighter, we end up with a plane that can basically eat everything in the unit list for breakfast. The only uses I see is either an F-35 on F-35 scenario, or an SP campaign tailored to provide some sort of challenge. Edited February 8 by Dragon1-1
EchoOneOne Posted February 8 Author Posted February 8 15 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: No need to make the F-35 more OP, I think. It'll be bad enough trying to fight it without radar. It's not a matter of beign OP or not. 3Fs only fly with Blk. 2s. "Once a dragon always a dragon"
Dragon1-1 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 I don't think we're getting a fully fledged 3F, though. We'll probably have a frankenjet that is mostly a 2B with some 3F features.
felixx75 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 7 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said: I know, but this doesn't stop the F-35 from being OP. It is so IRL Calling a fighter in a simulation "OP" makes no sense, but calling a real world fighter "overpowered" is complete nonsense. Perhaps the Iraqi Air Force should have protested at the time, arguing that USAF fighters were far too OP in that conflict... DCS is not a competitive multiplayer title and basically can't be. Nevertheless, there are countless opportunities to fly an F-35 in both multiplayer and singleplayer. It just depends on the mission designer. 1
Dragon1-1 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 29 minutes ago, felixx75 said: Calling a fighter in a simulation "OP" makes no sense, but calling a real world fighter "overpowered" is complete nonsense. It's not, complaining about it is nonsense, but you want your fighters to be OP IRL. That means you'll get to dominate the battlespace with them. DCS can definitely be competitive, just like things such as Exercise Gunsmoke can be. In any case, it will be very difficult to design a mission where the F-35 will face any sort of challenge, seeing as it'll be essentially invisible to all mid-2000s and earlier sensors. Sure, missions that are a walk in the park can be fun, and you can try to make fuel management challenging, or go with an escort mission, but the fact remains we can expect the F-35 to have very little trouble overcoming any opposition up to and including the SA-10 and the Eurofighter. It's simply a jet from a different era, just like one doesn't normally expect a MiG-15 to shoot down F-16s unsupported (yes, you can shoot down anything if you bushwhack it, but you need to find it first).
felixx75 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 28 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said: It's not, complaining about it is nonsense, but you want your fighters to be OP IRL. That means you'll get to dominate the battlespace with them. DCS can definitely be competitive, just like things such as Exercise Gunsmoke can be. In any case, it will be very difficult to design a mission where the F-35 will face any sort of challenge, seeing as it'll be essentially invisible to all mid-2000s and earlier sensors. Sure, missions that are a walk in the park can be fun, and you can try to make fuel management challenging, or go with an escort mission, but the fact remains we can expect the F-35 to have very little trouble overcoming any opposition up to and including the SA-10 and the Eurofighter. It's simply a jet from a different era, just like one doesn't normally expect a MiG-15 to shoot down F-16s unsupported (yes, you can shoot down anything if you bushwhack it, but you need to find it first). We clearly define the term “overpower” differently. We want our own military capabilities to be “superior” to those of others. “Overpowered” is a term that is usually used in the gaming scene to criticize a (usually unintentional) imbalance (mostly, but not always in PvP games). Just because you can't think of a challenging scenario doesn't mean that there isn't one. But anyway, I think we're going round in circles, I've said what I think and that's enough.
Dragon1-1 Posted February 8 Posted February 8 32 minutes ago, felixx75 said: Just because you can't think of a challenging scenario doesn't mean that there isn't one. No, but it just means there's much fewer of them than with aircraft that I can readily come up with a challenging scenario for. More than that, it likely means that a DC will be unable to generate very many. I think that the F-35 will end up simply not appearing anywhere but in its own, dedicated campaigns, and on a handful of servers for F-35 vs. F-35 fights.
EchoOneOne Posted February 11 Author Posted February 11 On 2/8/2025 at 6:11 PM, Dragon1-1 said: I don't think we're getting a fully fledged 3F, though. We'll probably have a frankenjet that is mostly a 2B with some 3F features. Block 2B didn't have sidewinders. "Once a dragon always a dragon"
Dragon1-1 Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Yeah, and probably a bunch of crayon drawings for a flight manual, what with it being marked, as USMC IOC. Honestly, given that most of our modules' dogfight radar modes would have trouble locking onto the F-35 in WVR, I think even a Block 2B will have a massive advantage.
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