Dcs should become more keyboard and mouse friendly

[mrbluegame]

As a keyboard and mouse player I think dcs should become more keyboard and mouse friendly because there are some people out there that prefer to play on keyboard and mouse so there Should be a option to change the sensitivity of the keys you press on all planes just like you can with the f-4e and make old modules support keyboard and mouse more

[HC_Official]

so there Should be a option to change the sensitivity of the keys

dunno how you think you can change sensitivity on a digital device

[Dragon1-1]

You can set them so that the key does not command full deflection of the stick. However, a realistic sim will be unplayable without analog controls almost by definition.

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, HC_Official said:

dunno how you think you can change sensitivity on a digital device

Maybe also read the mic. The louder you scream, the further the deflection? May not be the brightest idea, but I'd pay good money to see people try to use it...

[MAXsenna]

so there Should be a option to change the sensitivity of the keys
dunno how you think you can change sensitivity on a digital device

I've not tried, but users say Deka has a very good implementation in the Jeff.
Personally, I do not prefer keys and mice. A cheap game controller would beat it in a heartbeat if I didn't have my stuff.

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[mrbluegame]

On 1/28/2025 at 11:18 AM, HC_Official said:

so there Should be a option to change the sensitivity of the keys

dunno how you think you can change sensitivity on a digital device

im talking about something like this

On 1/28/2025 at 11:32 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

You can set them so that the key does not command full deflection of the stick. However, a realistic sim will be unplayable without analog controls almost by definition.

really where can you set them?

Edited January 30 by mrbluegame

[Dragon1-1]

I didn't mean it's currently possible, just that it's one potential way to do it.

[mrbluegame]

9 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I didn't mean it's currently possible, just that it's one potential way to do it.

oh okay my bad

[SharpeXB]

Using a keyboard is nuts. Get a simple joystick or gamepad. I can’t imagine enough people use keyboards to make any of these options worthwhile. 

[MAXsenna]

Using a keyboard is nuts. Get a simple joystick or gamepad. I can’t imagine enough people use keyboards to make any of these options worthwhile. 

Well, if you're handy with the keybind keystrokes, and your hands are already on the keyboard....

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[SharpeXB]

14 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, if you're handy with the keybind keystrokes, and your hands are already on the keyboard....
 

Yeah but trying to fly with key presses is

Why torture yourself like that? The only reason I figure DCS has those inputs is that since it’s a free trial game someone can screw around with it and not need a joystick. 

Edited January 28 by SharpeXB

[MAXsenna]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah but trying to fly with key presses is

One always starts out with a keyboard. Not?  

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The only reason I figure DCS has those inputs is that since it’s a free trial game someone can screw around with it and not need a joystick. 

I assume so. 

[SharpeXB]

49 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

One always starts out with a keyboard. Not?

Possibly but so many people already own gamepads I can’t imagine that many do. The other problem you face with both of those is the inverted Y-axis. If there is any little part of your brain that knows pulling back on the stick makes an airplane go up you’re screwed. It’s just innate with keys or gamepads that forward is up on the screen and back towards you is down. But an aircraft’s controls are reversed. I find this simply impossibility unlearn. It’s literally reflexive. So any dumb FPS game that makes me try to fly a plane with the WADS keys I just have to skip that part. A joystick simply eliminates that problem. 

[mrbluegame]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Using a keyboard is nuts. Get a simple joystick or gamepad. I can’t imagine enough people use keyboards to make any of these options worthwhile. 

theres still a few keyboard and mouse players at least in the hundreds. I always prefer to use keyoard anyway

[MAXsenna]

45 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Possibly but so many people already own gamepads I can’t imagine that many do.

Possibly!  

46 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The other problem you face with both of those is the inverted Y-axis. If there is any little part of your brain that knows pulling back on the stick makes an airplane go up you’re screwed.

I have a feeling you meant the opposite. I've never had that issue. "Knows". That's the fault of retard game devs post 90s that made the Y-axis not "inverted" by default. The first FPS shooters had the mouse axis the correct way. Have never been an issue ever for me. And that muscle memory is so easy to relearn. Never have I ever heard that being a problem in ever on these forum. So I guess that's a you problem.

50 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s just innate with keys or gamepads that forward is up on the screen and back towards you is down.

Depends. Top bad the really first major releases had bad devs that made it this way, so everyone else followed. I blame them. Every sane person knows back is up. 

52 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I find this simply impossibility unlearn. It’s literally reflexive.

See, a you problem. I ride bikes a lot, and I row. Made it hard for me for the first hour when I got back in sims for rudders. Because when you wanna go left on a bike, you push right. There was a guy that wanted to experience with his kid, so he changed that. The kid had a hard time at first, but learned. Then he switch it back. Ever heard of that airplane from Kazakhstan, that were on maintenance in Portugal, and they rerouted the cables on the elevators incorrectly? When turning the yoke left, they rolled right. Imagine having that epiphany when you're up in the air. Spoiler, they got the plane down safely.

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So any dumb FPS game that makes me try to fly a plane with the WADS keys I just have to skip that part.

Is that the default bindings? I'm used to W forwards and D down... When flying in a sim with the keyboard, I find the arrow keys more natural. 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

A joystick simply eliminates that problem. 

True, while a user might not want to get one before trying the game. I agree the chances of being in possession of a gamepad already is pretty high.  

[SharpeXB]

15 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Depends. Top bad the really first major releases had bad devs that made it this way, so everyone else followed. I blame them. Every sane person knows back is up. 

That’s just innately reflexive. Up is away from you, down is back towards you, like a pencil on paper. I can’t fathom there’s anyone who has their mouse cursor inverted like that so moving your mouse away from you would be down on the screen.

15 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

That's the fault of retard game devs post 90s that made the Y-axis not "inverted" by default. The first FPS shooters had the mouse axis the correct way

That’s just insane Your normal computer use with a mouse would be backwards to the game. Such reflexes are involuntary so that would make the game just impossible to play. I can’t believe how games could be like that. 

21 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I ride bikes a lot, and I row. Made it hard for me for the first hour when I got back in sims for rudders. Because when you wanna go left on a bike, you push right.

There was an accident here at a local airport where the pilot of a dual engine plane had an engine failure on takeoff and pushed the wrong rudder pedal. I don’t know if that was the real cause but if someone was a cyclist such reflexes would be very hard to unlearn.

28 minutes ago, mrbluegame said:

theres still a few keyboard and mouse players at least in the hundreds. I always prefer to use keyoard anyway

Suit yourself, the request makes sense. It’s just that there aren’t many players who use that I’m sure. So you may just end up frustrated. It would be better to just get a joystick.

I never learned to type properly since typing was for girls back in my day. It was the worst choice I ever made. I don’t use a keyboard for any type of gaming because I’d be constantly looking down at the keys

[MAXsenna]

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s just innately reflexive. Up is away from you, down is back towards you, like a pencil on paper. I can’t fathom there’s anyone who has their mouse cursor inverted like that so moving your mouse away from you would be down on the screen.

Bad comparison. Navigating on a screen or a piece of paper is quite different from navigating a vehicle. Turning left in your car. You push right. Rowing a canoe, you paddle on the right to go left.

FFS, use your head. To look up, you physically tilt your head back man.  

 

[SharpeXB]

17 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Bad comparison. Navigating on a screen or a piece of paper is quite different from navigating a vehicle. Turning left in your car. You push right. Rowing a canoe, you paddle on the right to go left.

FFS, use your head. To look up, you physically tilt your head back man.  

 

Do you have your mouse reversed for normal computer work?

one things for sure, this has gotta be a very hard thing to unlearn once you’re set on it  

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/feb/28/why-do-video-game-players-invert-the-controls#:~:text=If the answer is “up,But why the perceptual difference?

Edited January 29 by SharpeXB

[MAXsenna]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Do you have your mouse reversed for normal computer work?

No I don't, and explained it above.

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

one things for sure, this has gotta be a very hard thing to unlearn once you’re set on it  

It actually isn't if you out your mind to it. Took me an hour or so with the pedals in a helicopter module. Like I wrote. They landed the plane successfully. 

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

It actually isn't if you out your mind to it. Took me an hour or so with the pedals in a helicopter module. Like I wrote. They landed the plane successfully.

Not the pedals, the Y-axis. What’s amazing is some people use a gamepad to fly the Apache. Do they use it for the TEDAC too? Flying with one orientation and then doing a “shooter” in the other? Sure there are no limits to what human skill can accomplish but I really see no point in making a video game so difficult. 

[cfrag]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

That’s just innately reflexive.

It is neither, and can be trained. Remember the Lunar Lander? For docking, the axes were reversed from the pilot’s point of view. On a Mac, the scroll wheel works opposite to Windows. When I use a trackball, I have set it to reverse Y (roll down to move up, and left to move left). UX studies have shown that humans can train this in hours, same as different keyboard layouts (Dvorak vs English). If you can’t relearn simple motoric responses to thought stimuli, that would be a you problem.

Edited January 29 by cfrag

[MAXsenna]

Not the pedals, the Y-axis. What’s amazing is some people use a gamepad to fly the Apache. Do they use it for the TEDAC too? Flying with one orientation and then doing a “shooter” in the other? Sure there are no limits to what human skill can accomplish but I really see no point in making a video game so difficult. 

The pedals was an example from my own experience I described above. The Y-axis is not any different.
You're describing a problem only you have mentioned in the <9 years I've been active on this forum, which makes me believe the "problem" is not as widespread as you think.

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[mrbluegame]

I didnt think my forum would start a argument lol

[MAXsenna]

I didnt think my forum would start a argument lol

It always does!
Git gud and purchase latest and most expensive, is the mantra from som people.

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[Fitzcarraldo]

I don't have pedals, so for braking i use buttons on my hotas. It would be helpful if i could configure how rapidly a button press would increase the virtual force on the brakes (i would prefer the pressure to built a bit slower f.e.).
I think such options could be universal for all controls and would also benefit players who use keyboard+mouse exclusively...

Similar options would also be helpful for things like mini-sticks (target designator on modern jets) mapped on a digital four-way hat.