Engine breaking with water injection

[Gunfreak]

So shouldn't the engine be impossible to break as long as you have water injection on? I break the engine after like 2 minutes on full power with water on.

[vgilsoler]

You can break it by more several reasons than water injection, like turbo overspeeding, pressure ... 

[Gunfreak]

9 hours ago, vgilsoler said:

You can break it by more several reasons than water injection, like turbo overspeeding, pressure ... 

How do you avoid turbo overspeeding? 

 

[vgilsoler]

13 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

How do you avoid turbo overspeeding? 

 

Disconnect turbo lever from throttle lever, leave turbo lever full after below 2000ft.

Be sure you never move turbo lever more forward  than throttle lever. 
Check the turbo RPM indicator and reduce turbo rpm with the turbo lever. 

Over 3000ft connecting the turbo lever and throttle lever should be ok, but maintain an eye on the turbo rpm indicator.

[Gunfreak]

3 hours ago, vgilsoler said:

Disconnect turbo lever from throttle lever, leave turbo lever full after below 2000ft.

Be sure you never move turbo lever more forward  than throttle lever. 
Check the turbo RPM indicator and reduce turbo rpm with the turbo lever. 

Over 3000ft connecting the turbo lever and throttle lever should be ok, but maintain an eye on the turbo rpm indicator.

Neve done anything to break that way. The engine just dies after 2 minutes on full power. Even if I'm never below 15 000 feet and never slower then 170mph.

[vgilsoler]

In that case a TRK to check would help.

[Tzigy]

define full power..

WEP ( i believe from RL manuals):  up to 5 min;  2700rpm at 64mmHg

[peachmonkey]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Neve done anything to break that way. The engine just dies after 2 minutes on full power. Even if I'm never below 15 000 feet and never slower then 170mph.

it's a bug. If you overspeed the turbo the light on the dashboard comes on and the engine dies immediately (its starts grinding and stops within 30 seconds).

P47 "engine degraded" situation arises after you stop using water/full power, and in my observed cases it happens 10 to 30 minutes later (happened to me on the ground when I landed), not during the full power use.

It's a bug.

Edited February 4 by peachmonkey

[Gunfreak]

25 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

it's a bug. If you overspeed the turbo the light on the dashboard comes on and the engine dies immediately (its starts grinding and stops within 30 seconds).

P47 "engine degraded" situation arises after you stop using water/full power, and in my observed cases it happens 10 to 30 minutes later (happened to me on the ground when I landed), not during the full power use.

It's a bug.

It's odd. Given real p47 pilots would dive down full power from 30k to the ground, chasing 190s. Robert Johnson describes doing this many times in his P47.

[peachmonkey]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

It's odd. Given real p47 pilots would dive down full power from 30k to the ground, chasing 190s. Robert Johnson describes doing this many times in his P47.

the historical records vs. what ED can simulate are two separate things it seems

I read that P47 engine could run for ~10 mins with no oil. In-game such a scenario gives you about 1-2 minutes tops. However, DCS A8 can chug along with no oil (no more oil leaking out, oil pressure on 0) for about 15-17 minutes. Go figure.

[Gunfreak]

3 minutes ago, peachmonkey said:

the historical records vs. what ED can simulate are two separate things it seems

I read that P47 engine could run for ~10 mins with no oil. In-game such a scenario gives you about 1-2 minutes tops. However, DCS A8 can chug along with no oil (no more oil leaking out, oil pressure on 0) for about 15-17 minutes. Go figure.

Real warbirds could run WEP far longer then any modern WW2 simulator shows. The 5 minutes WEP in a spitfire or P51. Didn't mean the engine died after 6 minutes. It ment the engine took more wear and tear then the manufacturers recommend. You could run yor P51 on WEP for 15 minutes and still fly home from Berlin without any worries. It ment more work for the ground crew and ment the engine would have a shorter life span before being pulled out and exchanged. 

Not sure why all modern sims insist on these artificially delicate engines.

[peachmonkey]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Real warbirds could run WEP far longer then any modern WW2 simulator shows. The 5 minutes WEP in a spitfire or P51. Didn't mean the engine died after 6 minutes. It ment the engine took more wear and tear then the manufacturers recommend. You could run yor P51 on WEP for 15 minutes and still fly home from Berlin without any worries. It ment more work for the ground crew and ment the engine would have a shorter life span before being pulled out and exchanged. 

Not sure why all modern sims insist on these artificially delicate engines.

well, to give ED credit, they did simulate the Mosquito Merlin engines that way, i.e. you can firewall them at 3,000rpm and 18lbs boost and fly a whole hour or more and they'll be fine. With Spit being one of the early released modules I guess their modeling was rather conservative then. In any case, this what makes DCS 'interesting' as each module is drastically different from another, and makes it stand apart from other w2 sims where everything behaves the same way behind some aesthetic smoke and mirrors.

[grafspee]

20 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Real warbirds could run WEP far longer then any modern WW2 simulator shows. The 5 minutes WEP in a spitfire or P51. Didn't mean the engine died after 6 minutes. It ment the engine took more wear and tear then the manufacturers recommend. You could run yor P51 on WEP for 15 minutes and still fly home from Berlin without any worries. It ment more work for the ground crew and ment the engine would have a shorter life span before being pulled out and exchanged. 

Not sure why all modern sims insist on these artificially delicate engines.

I think that devs forgot that plane can do hundreds of missions and engine can last hundreds hours. So they assume that engine limits like 5 min for military power is set so the engine will last one sortie. If the system is set that way any deviation above those limits will make that engine can't do a single sortie. Or there can be another reason. Devs need hundred of hours to model and program those engine failures only to not be able to show those failures ? Because if you can firewall engine for an hour with no engine failure so what's the point of modeling and programing all that stuff  

[Dragon1-1]

I think it's just a bug. Most DCS warbird engines are modeled correctly, like in the 190, the Mossie, or the Spit. As long as you don't blow the temp limits, you can stay in WEP however long you want. In the end, engine temperature should be the primary limiting factor for WEP, the engine can handle the mechanical stresses just fine (in fact, all WWII engines were overbuilt by modern standards, no simulations to shave off every "unnecessary" bit of metal back then), but the cooling system can't necessarily dissipate the heat generated when operating that way. Overheating should be the primary reason for engine failures in WEP, and it won't happen at all in some conditions.

That said, we should remember one thing: to use water injection, the P-47 has a water tank. When the tank no longer has any water in it, the engine will knock in WEP. Same with MW50 in the 109. In both cases, this should wreck the motor in short order. Realistically, those aircraft should be able to run WEP as long as the relevant fluid tank lasts.