HARM PB Mode, too easily distracted?

[Callsign JoNay]

I've been noticing a behavior with AGM-88 HARMs in PB mode, that I think might be unrealistic. Last night my virtual wing hosted a mission that involved multiple flights performing DEAD on several different SAM sites arranged in a wall from NW to SE. I was attacking the Northern most SA-11 site that was protected by an SA-15 SHORAD. My tactic was to create markpoints on the SA-11 TELs, deploy JSOWs to those MPs, give them a healthy head start, and then launch a PB Mode HARM in trail with the SA-15 code (119), and one of the TEL markpoints selected, with the intention of suppressing the SA-15 if it goes active and tries to shoot down the JSOWs.

(My HARM shot was too late, but that's not the point.) 

 

About midway through the HARM's flight to the designated WP at the SA-11 site, it veered hard to the right. ...Distracted by a different SA-15.

 

The HARM ended up splashing down over 23 nm away from it's intended location.

 

I don't have any documentation to prove otherwise, but I have a hard time believing that this is accurate PB mode behavior. Wouldn't the HARM have some kind of narrowed FOV in PB mode? Or perhaps some kind of delay on it's seeker activation, so that it only activates closer to the designated WP, and not get distracted by something over 20 miles away? I know if I was the weapon designer, I would have some kind of features in place to prevent it from being so easily distracted by unintended targets so far away. I could understand it getting distracted by a similar target within 5 nm of the intended one, but 23 nm away? Really? The current implementation seems to defy logic and common sense, and makes coordinated SEAD very difficult in DCS. Can someone at ED review?

 

Thanks.

[Hobel]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Callsign JoNay:

I've been noticing a behavior with AGM-88 HARMs in PB mode, that I think might be unrealistic. Last night my virtual wing hosted a mission that involved multiple flights performing DEAD on several different SAM sites arranged in a wall from NW to SE. I was attacking the Northern most SA-11 site that was protected by an SA-15 SHORAD. My tactic was to create markpoints on the SA-11 TELs, deploy JSOWs to those MPs, give them a healthy head start, and then launch a PB Mode HARM in trail with the SA-15 code (119), and one of the TEL markpoints selected, with the intention of suppressing the SA-15 if it goes active and tries to shoot down the JSOWs.

(My HARM shot was too late, but that's not the point.) 

 

About midway through the HARM's flight to the designated WP at the SA-11 site, it veered hard to the right. ...Distracted by a different SA-15.

 

The HARM ended up splashing down over 23 nm away from it's intended location.

 

I don't have any documentation to prove otherwise, but I have a hard time believing that this is accurate PB mode behavior. Wouldn't the HARM have some kind of narrowed FOV in PB mode? Or perhaps some kind of delay on it's seeker activation, so that it only activates closer to the designated WP, and not get distracted by something over 20 miles away? I know if I was the weapon designer, I would have some kind of features in place to prevent it from being so easily distracted by unintended targets so far away. I could understand it getting distracted by a similar target within 5 nm of the intended one, but 23 nm away? Really? The current implementation seems to defy logic and common sense, and makes coordinated SEAD very difficult in DCS. Can someone at ED review?

 

Thanks.

This has been reported since the PB, EOM and RUK modes were released.

the harm goes active too early, which causes this behavior.

actually it should be 20nm before the TGT Point with RUK
PB 10-15nm
and EOM 5-10nm

but this is not the case i think it is always 40nm before the target and the footprint is always too big

[Callsign JoNay]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

This has been reported since the PB, EOM and RUK modes were released.

the harm goes active too early, which causes this behavior.

actually it should be 20nm before the TGT Point with RUK
PB 10-15nm
and EOM 5-10nm

but this is not the case i think it is always 40nm before the target and the footprint is always too big

Ahh thank you. I did a search to see if this was already discussed, but I didn't find any hits. Hopefully it gets addressed. 

 

Edit/Add: Just to further contribute to this, here's a HUD view from the HARM the moment before it veered onto the incorrect target. The intended target is the pink grouping directly below the HUD (you can see the JSOWs inbound), and the green box to the right is the SA-15 that the HARM veered on to. In the top middle of the image the distance is reading 38.72 nm to that incorrect SA-15 target.

Edited February 23 by Callsign JoNay

[Hobel]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Callsign JoNay:

Ahh thank you. I did a search to see if this was already discussed, but I didn't find any hits. Hopefully it gets addressed. 

 

Edit/Add: Just to further contribute to this, here's a HUD view from the HARM the moment before it veered onto the incorrect target. The intended target is the pink grouping directly below the HUD (you can see the JSOWs inbound), and the green box to the right is the SA-15 that the HARM veered on to. In the top middle of the image the distance is reading 38.72 nm to that incorrect SA-15 target.

can you share the tacview?

 

 

Edited February 23 by Hobel

[Callsign JoNay]

Sure thing. Here is the trimmed down 7.5 minutes of when the JSOW+HARM attack happened.

 

PB Mode HARM TacView Trimmed.zip.acmi

[Hobel]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Callsign JoNay:

Sure thing. Here is the trimmed down 7.5 minutes of when the JSOW+HARM attack happened.

 

PB Mode HARM TacView Trimmed.zip.acmi 2.35 MB · 0 Downloads

yep that's it.
I think the SA15 has switched off and the AGM88 immediately flies to the wrong one.

[Callsign JoNay]

ED, please fix.

The whole point of a PB shot is to have a HARM in the air, 3/4 of the way to the target when it switches on it's radar. We can't have our PB mode HARMs veering off the intended target before it even has a chance to start emitting.