Need info to make BORT numbers for refreshed F-5E3

[VZ_342]

With the legacy F-5 I figured out how to make custom font Bort numbers, but with the refreshed F-5 it seems the decal location isn't available.

 

Original description lua:

{"F-5E3_Numbers_Nose",    DECAL                ,    "f-5-e3_bonu_neutral_black", true};

 

My changes:

{"F-5E3_Numbers_Nose",    DECAL                ,    "f-5-e3_new numbers", false};

 

With the original, numbers show up but with my "new numbers" (.dds file is in custom skin folder @ saved games) I get the "missing textures" file image. Any instruction/constructive advice is appreciated...Thanks!

[Megalax]

When doing Bort numbers you also need to indicate the texture under the borts, usually both a diffuse texture and the roughmet if you're using your own.

Its not just the number decal you need. For example:

{"F-5E3_Numbers_Nose",    DIFFUSE                ,    "f-5-e3_dif", false};

{"F-5E3_Numbers_Nose",    ROUGHNESS_METALLIC                ,    "f-5-e3_dif_roughmet", false};

{"F-5E3_Numbers_Nose",    DECAL                ,    "f-5-e3_new numbers", false};

 

[VZ_342]

There are 4 textures: Diffuse, Normal_Map, Decal, and Roughness_Metallic. I have tried many combinations of true/false (with "Decal" always being false). I changed the names of the dds files to reflect those in the description (i.e., f-5-e3_nose_d for the Diffuse texture), but roughmet is listed as f-5-e3_nose_d_roughmet...does this mean it's included as part of the Diffuse file?  I also tried to rename my number image with the original image name ("bonu_neutral_black")...did not work.

21 hours ago, VZ_342 said:

 

The pics show what happens to my numbers when I get them to show up (only "Decals" = false)....the tall white numbers look almost like the actual image is stretched vertically? The basic image is 1000 pixels x 130 pixels, with 0-9 imprinted with a space in between. This used to work with the original F-5. The OEM numbers are the actual numbers as included in the upgrade. 

[Megalax]

This is part of the problem with us not having access to the base textures. We have no idea what the numbers texture is supposed to look like. Is it horizontally aligned like the old one, or is it vertically aligned like the Hornet? Seeing your screenshot I'd say the numbers texture doesn't match the alignment the model is looking for. Whatever used to work on the original F-5 won't necessarily work on the 2024 version as they completely redid everything.

If you're not intending on using a roughmet you can just dash out the line too. The name of the texture doesn't matter as long as it matches in the descripton.lua if your line is set to false.

[VZ_342]

Here's a screenshot of the nose numbers.

 

Description nose bort numbers:

(Diffuse, false)

--Normal_map

(Decal, false)

--Roughness_metallic

 

This shows the 3 places for numbers (using my numbers image), but only with two of the three spaces used ("98"). The little black smudges to the left can be seen because there is no number present. The second set of lines (half white, half black) is the "9", and the third set (all white) is the "8". 

 

If I made the number "999", all three positions would each have the set of black/white lines, if there was "888", all three positions would be the all white lines. If no numbers are input, I can see all three positions with the little black smudges.

 

I went through all the numbers (0-9) to see if any matched the little black smudges, for either color or spacing....8 and 9 came closest.

 

Little black smudges show thick line, small space, thick line, big space, thin line, small space, thick line, small space, thick line, small space, and thin line. The "8" matches these almost perfectly, as does the "9"...but if I put in a third number, the little smudges disappears entirely and is replaced by the white line number (black/white if a nine)

 

The numbers are white with a 3 pixel black border.

 

Note the tail does not have the black smudges....(Edit: the font on the tail is the default font, not the one I made, which is on the nose)

Edited March 21 by VZ_342

[MarbleFalcon]

Well, about the swiss (0.2 type bort numbers) vstab bort numbers, i cant find the code line for the fixed decals that stays near bort number. Also did you guys noticed that even the bort numbers default liveries looks weird in different aspect?

[VZ_342]

Sorry, don't know. It looks like the numbers are in the locked/hidden part of the module.

[Agg]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread - but where did you find the new F-5 model so that you could open it in the modelviewer?

[VZ_342]

I didn't. I put the skin in saved games, and used the mission editor with a "blank" Caucuses map. ED doesn't have the model viewer able to see the updated F-5 available yet.

Edited March 27 by VZ_342

[VZ_342]

On 3/19/2025 at 3:18 AM, Megalax said:

This is part of the problem with us not having access to the base textures. We have no idea what the numbers texture is supposed to look like. Is it horizontally aligned like the old one, or is it vertically aligned like the Hornet? Seeing your screenshot I'd say the numbers texture doesn't match the alignment the model is looking for. Whatever used to work on the original F-5 won't necessarily work on the 2024 version as they completely redid everything.

If you're not intending on using a roughmet you can just dash out the line too. The name of the texture doesn't matter as long as it matches in the descripton.lua if your line is set to false.

I tried a vertically aligned image, and it partially worked. Unfortunately, my method of outlining the numbers (per Gimp videos) causes an apparent inversion of layers...the "numbers layer" (white) is above the Alpha layer (which is black), but the numbers (correct font for what I'm using) are entirely black in the Editor (the Mission Editor weapons selection dialogue). In the actual game, the numbers are not present at all.

 

Edit: At this point, the all-black numbers displayed are not mine, they are the original numbers in the template for the ED remastered F-5.

 

 

Edited April 18 by VZ_342

[Megalax]

Probably because your approach is off. I've never seen texture files at 1000x130 pixels, they're usually in sizes divisible by 8 (16/32/64/128/256...) If your textures come out as all black it means DCS doesn't recognize them or their size is completely wrong. It seems to me from what I've read so far of your approach is that you just went in blind to this.

The Hornet Borts for example are 256x2048, and are apparently the same as the new F-5E borts, so try those to start.

As far as alpha channels and all that jazz, try using masks instead of meddling with channels in Gimp. Gimp works better if you work on the alpha as a mask I find.

[Urbi]

I support Megalax's statement regarding the pixel ratio. ED uses a pixel ratio of 4096x128 for the B-52H and C-47's ship numbers, since the number bar also contains letters. VZ_342 should simply copy one of these textures and enter it as false in the description. The name of a false can be anything, so he doesn't have to change the name of the texture itself. I also think ED uses the same texture scheme for the F-5E3.

[VZ_342]

I copied the F/A-18 numbers (they worked), but when I remade the image with my numbers (scaling them to match the size of the 18s). The numbers themselves show up correctly (size and location, but not the colors)...I suspect the color reversal may be related to the Gimp process I used to create the borders.

 

Thank you for the tip on using a mask, and the "multiples of 8" etc size. I'll check into that.