Bulldog_1 Posted March 26 Posted March 26 (edited) Below is an overview assembled from unclassified, open‐source literature and historical discussions. Please note: The discussion below is for informational and educational purposes only. The actual parameters and procedures used by military forces are classified and vary with mission requirements, threat environments, and evolving doctrine. The following is a generalized outline rather than a “how‐to” manual for operational use. 1. Formation Geometry and Aircraft Spacing Formation Concept: The “Wall of Eagles” envisions a long, horizontal line of F‑15Cs to maximize radar coverage and create overlapping fields of detection. This setup is designed to strike a balance between broad surveillance and mutual defensive support. Spacing Considerations: General Range: Open descriptions in unclassified sources sometimes mention spacing in the order of approximately 1–3 nautical miles between aircraft. Operational Factors: Radar Overlap: Aircraft must be separated enough to avoid mutual radar interference yet close enough for cooperative target tracking and rapid visual identification. Tactical Flexibility: In high-threat environments, spacing might be tightened or loosened based on the need for rapid reaction or to reduce the possibility of a single threat affecting multiple assets. Notes: Actual spacing would depend on factors like aircraft performance, mission specifics, situational dynamics, and command directives. The numbers above are indicative rather than prescriptive. 2. Radar Modes and Ranges F-15 Radar Capabilities: Modern F-15C models use advanced radars (such as variants of the APG-63/70 family) that offer multiple modes including: Track-While-Scan (TWS) Mode: Allows the radar to maintain tracks on multiple targets while simultaneously scanning for new ones. In formation operations, this mode supports an overarching common operating picture by providing continuous target updates. High-Resolution Modes: For detailed target analysis when a contact is identified, the radar can switch to modes that emphasize higher resolution but may narrow the scanning field. Range Details: Detection Range: The AN/APG-63 (v1) radar, used in F-15C/D aircraft, has a detection range that varies depending on the target's radar cross-section (RCS) and other factors. For example, it can detect a target with a 5 square meter RCS at approximately 54 nautical miles in high pulse repetition frequency (HPRF) mode. Operational Use: In a formation, the emphasis is generally on rapid update rates and track continuity rather than maximizing raw range. This means radar settings are optimized for frequency and stability rather than just maximum distance. 3. Communications Protocols and Data Link Integration Secure Communications: Frequency-Hopping Radios: Air-to-air communications in a formation like this use secure, frequency-hopping radios to reduce the risk of enemy interception. Encryption: Voice and data communications are encrypted to ensure operational security. Data Link Usage: Link 16 (and Similar Tactical Data Links): These are standardized systems that allow fighters to exchange real-time positional data, target tracks, and tactical commands. Common Operating Picture: The data link supports a digital “common picture” across the formation, meaning that each pilot (as well as supporting command assets like AWACS) receives a synthesized view of the battlespace. Rapid Updates: Continuous data sharing allows for immediate adjustments in the formation if one aircraft detects a threat or if a target is designated by a command center. 4. Contingency Procedures and Tactical Flexibility Dynamic Reconfiguration: Breaking Formation: If an individual aircraft is engaged or needs to acquire a target independently, prearranged procedures allow it to break off and later re-integrate into the formation. Sub-Formations: In some scenarios, the wall may split into smaller configurations (e.g., two or more “cells”) to handle multi-directional threats or to conduct search-and-engage operations. Support Integration: AWACS Coordination: While the F-15s provide a front-line “wall,” airborne early warning and control systems (AWACS) supplement their coverage with extended radar tracking and strategic coordination. Environmental Adaptation: External factors—like weather, terrain, or enemy electronic countermeasures—are constantly monitored. Adjustments in spacing, speed, and radar settings are made in real time based on these inputs. Summary and Caveats Public Information vs. Classified Doctrine: The details above are drawn from public sources and serve to illustrate the principles behind coordinated fighter formations. They are not exhaustive instructions, nor are they verified as current operational procedures. Operational Security: Specific parameters (exact spacing, radar configurations, encryption details, etc.) are tailored to mission specifics and are not published in open literature for reasons of security and tactical advantage. Training and Simulation: Much of what is known comes from pilot training simulations and historical accounts. Simulators like those found in professional training environments and advanced flight simulators (e.g., commercial aviation simulation software) attempt to replicate these dynamics without divulging sensitive operational methods. In Practice: In regard to communication and data link, will we be able to implement this tactic with AI wingman and real wingman? Will the communication menu be modified to support a "Wall of Eagles" formation? Note: No eagles were harmed in the research of this article. Edited March 27 by Bulldog_1 Add tags. 8 DELL OptiPlex AIO 7410: i5-12500T 2.00GHz: 2TB SSD: 64GB RAM: UHD 770 1920x1080 @ 60Hz: ThrustMaster HOTAS X: IRL Retired Maintainer of the AT-38B: F-4E/G: F-15A/B/C/D: and McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Technical Advisor for the F-15C/D. I drive trains now.
draconus Posted March 26 Posted March 26 5 hours ago, Bulldog_1 said: In regard to communication and data link, will we be able to implement this tactic with AI wingman and real wingman? Will the communication menu be modified to support a "Wall of Eagles" formation? I doubt it. It all is best used in MP tactics with human pilots. AI detection is too simplified currently. Their detection is based on radar gimbals and calculated from base values including some caveats like look down and closure speed afaik. That makes single AI as good as a wall, at least for detections. Of course 2 in synched orbit will get you uninterrupted search. But we already have line abreast formation, no need to add anything. 1 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
Dragon1-1 Posted March 26 Posted March 26 This is not line abreast, or a classic "wall" formation. This is an operation-level concept of having Eagles on multiple CAP tracks along the FLOT, so that the radar coverage overlaps. This is notable because the Eaglejet was the first USAF fighter with worthwhile radar search modes. Remember that the Phantom, for example, was not especially capable in that area, and couldn't be used for this, it would just fly along its CAP tracks until AWACS found something to vector it to. We could use a "grinder" command added for AI, where a flight would split, with one or two AIs (depending on whether it's two or four ship) circling once or twice for separation, then flying the racetrack's hot leg while the other pair turns cold. That would provide uninterrupted radar coverage, important when using the radars for airspace surveillance. 2
marmor Posted March 27 Posted March 27 On 3/26/2025 at 2:38 AM, Bulldog_1 said: these radars can detect targets at ranges exceeding 100 nautical miles Under VS? In LRS for the premsip the maximum ranging distance was 86 nautical miles. Dunno if they increased it after 85' for msip/apg70s HPRF RWS. I know apg65 has 99 N.M. max ranging but it also has a much lower detection range than the apg63/70.
Bulldog_1 Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 24 minutes ago, marmor said: Under VS? In LRS for the pre-MSIP the maximum ranging distance was 86 nautical miles. The information I have is for a post MSIP APG-63(v1) and I will correct the original statement to say "The AN/APG-63 (v1) radar, used in F-15C/D aircraft, has a detection range that varies depending on the target's radar cross-section (RCS) and other factors. For example, it can detect a target with a 5 square meter RCS at approximately 54 nautical miles in high pulse repetition frequency (HPRF) mode". DELL OptiPlex AIO 7410: i5-12500T 2.00GHz: 2TB SSD: 64GB RAM: UHD 770 1920x1080 @ 60Hz: ThrustMaster HOTAS X: IRL Retired Maintainer of the AT-38B: F-4E/G: F-15A/B/C/D: and McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Technical Advisor for the F-15C/D. I drive trains now.
marmor Posted March 27 Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, Bulldog_1 said: The information I have is for a post MSIP APG-63(v1) and I will correct the original statement to say "The AN/APG-63 (v1) radar, used in F-15C/D aircraft, has a detection range that varies depending on the target's radar cross-section (RCS) and other factors. For example, it can detect a target with a 5 square meter RCS at approximately 54 nautical miles in high pulse repetition frequency (HPRF) mode". Maximum ranging capability ≠ detection range. Detection range for pre-FETamp (predates PSP) apg63 is ≈ 65 N.M against a T-33( ~2m²) headon HPRF. Definitely not 54N.M for a 5m².
Bulldog_1 Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 Just now, marmor said: Detection range for pre-FETamp (predates PSP) apg63 is ≈ 65 N.M against a T-33( ~2m²) headon HPRF. Definitely not 54N.M for a 5m². Interesting! Thank you for the input. DELL OptiPlex AIO 7410: i5-12500T 2.00GHz: 2TB SSD: 64GB RAM: UHD 770 1920x1080 @ 60Hz: ThrustMaster HOTAS X: IRL Retired Maintainer of the AT-38B: F-4E/G: F-15A/B/C/D: and McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Technical Advisor for the F-15C/D. I drive trains now.
Swiso Posted March 27 Posted March 27 I would strongly suggest everyone interested to listen to this podcast: Honestly ? All these episodes are worth listening ! Paco Geisler: Rick Tollini: Marco McCaffrey: This channel is a GOLDMINE for anyone interested in Military Aviation stories. Fantastic job by Steve Davis, well worth your time listening to it !! 2 2
Bulldog_1 Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 9 minutes ago, Swiso said: This channel is a GOLDMINE for anyone interested in Military Aviation stories. I agree! 1 DELL OptiPlex AIO 7410: i5-12500T 2.00GHz: 2TB SSD: 64GB RAM: UHD 770 1920x1080 @ 60Hz: ThrustMaster HOTAS X: IRL Retired Maintainer of the AT-38B: F-4E/G: F-15A/B/C/D: and McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Technical Advisor for the F-15C/D. I drive trains now.
Bulldog_1 Posted March 27 Author Posted March 27 Yes, I did. 1 DELL OptiPlex AIO 7410: i5-12500T 2.00GHz: 2TB SSD: 64GB RAM: UHD 770 1920x1080 @ 60Hz: ThrustMaster HOTAS X: IRL Retired Maintainer of the AT-38B: F-4E/G: F-15A/B/C/D: and McDonnell Douglas/Boeing Technical Advisor for the F-15C/D. I drive trains now.
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