Strange issue with landing gear (STILL!)

[Raptorattacker]

Recently, on 'replays' the lading gear has started behaving in a VERY peculiar manner.
The animation on the suspension starts jiggling wildy, one of the front wheels 'sinks' into the ground and then (sometimes) there's a huge crash as if I've completely colapsed the gear or run into a vehicle (when I haven't)! The gear warning light is also very random... 
NONE of this is happening whilst I am actually IN the plane and flying/landing. Only when I watch it back, which is making it nigh-on impossible to create any replay video of my stuff.
It also happens on my Thunderbolts and my Mosquito, all with the new suspension animation coincidentally. Maybe it's something related to that?
No such thing on Spits or Ratas or German planes as far as I can tell...

????
I have attached tracks (of both the Mustang and the Thunderbolt). The reason they are in link format is because the tracks are just a little too large for the upload limit and it's hard to reproduce in a rush!

https://mega.nz/file/9jZWTARI#6tty04Z89i78AMCy8it00EAZLyIwOrJyUKttivuvgYk

https://mega.nz/file/srJjQIBL#bv4_Sym0PAk9tkcCIQLNk7IbL6QTeJc5n0wY4_xXw8o

https://mega.nz/file/l74DkZoD#1duON7E46SpJIu0XrbUvAIXplozs2Tmw9nOEZn9rTVs

... and here's a video of the problem from in-cockpit.

NB The videos are 'unlisted' so as not to be available to the world!

As you can plainly see, it doesn't particularly matter wether what map it's on or what surface ON the map.
As I've said, the ONLY time it happens to me is with the WW2 planes with the enhanced suspension animation.
It really is ruining my enjoyment, not being able to do anything with the 'replays' and I have no way of telling wether it happens or not because when doing the actual mission there is NO hint of it.

More Track Files as well...
#2.trk

#4.trk

I look forward to your reply and thanks in advance
Rap

EDIT
Yet MORE evidence of this increasingly horrific problem... 
This time I have ALL the correct evidence, in case that was the reason for there being not even an acknowledgement of the problem, let alone anything else. 
I'm not in the game of being stroppy or impolite but this really IS a probelm that I can't see a solution for at MY end, leading me to the conclusion that it is at your end.
I only generally fly WW2 planes (I have bought them all), despite owning quite a few other types and this is now becoming a real distraction as I KNOW that the chances are that I can't look back on my (normal in-game) antics, even for problem-solving things I may have done wrong OR right in a mission (I don't use Tacview as I don't particularly like it nor feel it should be necessary)...

Particularly notable are the AOA readouts in the bottom info bar, they're all OVER the place and that's just taxiing!!
Anyway...

Gear again....trk
Gear again... AGAIN.trkMosquito gear... AGAIN.trkLogs.zipDxDiag.txt

@NineLine???

Edited April 29 by Raptorattacker

[grafspee]

It is well know issue with replays in DCS. Not everything plays out exactly the same.

[Raptorattacker]

Well it's only just started for me lately as far as this specific problem goes.

I'm aware of the inherent 'track'  problems and that it isn't technically a replay tool for video-makers and all that (sadly, I say again)...

Thing is, and many have said this before, even a basic replay mode faithful to your actual actions in a mission/camapaign would make so much difference to ED as far as free advertising goes... Graphically the game is absolutely second to none!

[Art-J]

I know it's not a solution, but have you tested smoother runways on Caucasus map for example? Normandy 2 Manston you showed in the vid has a generally more rough and bumpy surface mesh/noise than runways on other maps and it might exacerbate any problems with current replay system.

Edited April 20 by Art-J

[Raptorattacker]

Another example of the same. PLEASE fix? It's horrible, distracting and fairly non-immersive because you keep expecting it to happen, even though there's no HINT of it whilst doing the actual mission, only everything afterward!!
@Art-J As you suggested, a different runway 

 

The Track File
https://mega.nz/file/5qpHnaIJ#T38ceUkhHg43L5IN55-xHfCg26MDCCe_iCJD89L6Vx0

 

[Art-J]

Ouch, that's bad. Well, at least the skin is awesome. New creation of yours?

[grafspee]

3 hours ago, Raptorattacker said:

Another example of the same. PLEASE fix? It's horrible, distracting and fairly non-immersive because you keep expecting it to happen, even though there's no HINT of it whilst doing the actual mission, only everything afterward!!
@Art-J As you suggested, a different runway 

 

The Track File
https://mega.nz/file/5qpHnaIJ#T38ceUkhHg43L5IN55-xHfCg26MDCCe_iCJD89L6Vx0

 

That is crazy !

[Raptorattacker]

27 minutes ago, grafspee said:

That is crazy !

It IS isn't it? 

3 hours ago, Art-J said:

Ouch, that's bad. Well, at least the skin is awesome. New creation of yours?

Yeah, thanks 

[Doughguy]

That is not an issue with the mustang. its an issue with the map.

[Raptorattacker]

15 minutes ago, Doughguy said:

That is not an issue with the mustang. its an issue with the map.

So both Afghanistan AND Normandy?
How is it an issue with the map?
It happens with the Mustang, the Thunderbolt(s) AND the Mosquito... What would the issue with the map be then, please elaborate?
I suspect it's more something to do with the gear suspension animation, as I've said above. Then who am I?

[Doughguy]

6 minutes ago, Raptorattacker said:

So both Afghanistan AND Normandy?
How is it an issue with the map?
It happens with the Mustang, the Thunderbolt(s) AND the Mosquito... What would the issue with the map be then, please elaborate?
I suspect it's more something to do with the gear suspension animation, as I've said above. Then who am I?

There was a bug with the mosquito a while back where it bounced uncontrollably.
It worked on some airstrips like on caucasus but eg not on normandy.

Each surface of a map has also different values apart for its color information, namely how bumpy or rough the surface is...

In the said case, some airfields were VERY bumpy... others not.

I dont really have any probs with the mustang. at least i cannot observe this on normandy. dont have the mossie or jug nor afghan.

Try some runways on caucasus.

Edited April 21 by Doughguy

[Raptorattacker]

Just now, Doughguy said:

There was a bug with the mosquito a while back where it bounced uncontrollably.
It worked on some airstrips like on caucasus but eg not on normandy.

Each surface of a map has also different values apart for its color information, namely how bumpy or rough the surface is...

In the said case, some airfields were VERY bumpy... others not.

I dont really have any probs with the mustang. at least i cannot observe this on normandy. dont have the mossie or jug nor afghan.

Try some runways on caucasus.

I'll do that but still, that doesn't solve the essential problem! 

[Doughguy]

Neither of us could solve it if its a bug.

[Art-J]

2 hours ago, Doughguy said:

That is not an issue with the mustang. its an issue with the map.

It's neither (although suspension-altered planes seem to be more susceptible). There's more to it, though I haven't quite narrowed it down yet.

It's been ages since I last saved any tracks, so just to see how things are on my computer, tested D-30 Mustang yesterday on Caucasus map, Batumi airport. Simple and short cold start, takeoff, pattern and landing mission. Watched replay immediately after ending it (via "watch track" button) and after exceeding some taxiing speed (~ 10 kts or so) all the gear and airframe animation epilepsy shenanigans seen on Raptor's video above started happening, and then some! Landing gear didn't even retract (visually, because physics behaved as if it did).

Today fired up the same track again with all controllers plugged off - and this time it replayed perfectly with no issue whatsoever. Go figure.

It was a singleplayer track by the way, I don't do MP.

More testing is clearly required, although I'm not into making and watching tracks, so someone else will probably find the culprit much faster.

 

[Raptorattacker]

On 4/21/2025 at 1:50 PM, Art-J said:

It's neither (although suspension-altered planes seem to be more susceptible). There's more to it, though I haven't quite narrowed it down yet.

It's been ages since I last saved any tracks, so just to see how things are on my computer, tested D-30 Mustang yesterday on Caucasus map, Batumi airport. Simple and short cold start, takeoff, pattern and landing mission. Watched replay immediately after ending it (via "watch track" button) and after exceeding some taxiing speed (~ 10 kts or so) all the gear and airframe animation epilepsy shenanigans seen on Raptor's video above started happening, and then some! Landing gear didn't even retract (visually, because physics behaved as if it did).

Today fired up the same track again with all controllers plugged off - and this time it replayed perfectly with no issue whatsoever. Go figure.

It was a singleplayer track by the way, I don't do MP.

More testing is clearly required, although I'm not into making and watching tracks, so someone else will probably find the culprit much faster.

 

Phew (sort of)!! 
I thought it was just me. Yeah, my front undercarriage retracts but leaving the rear wheel out now on occasion, a different permutation!!
I think that people haven't seen it because they haven't watched the track afterwards (which is often the case, of course).
I tend to use a lot of the tracks for videos of skins (obviously I make skins) amongst other things or to see 'how I did' in a particular mission.
I also use SP and don't do MP.
The fact is that it SHOULD work as it is part of the game and people use it a lot, despite it's inherent shortfalls (hasten the day of proper replays).
Thanks for the affirmation that I wasn't going completely insane!! 
 

Edited April 25 by Raptorattacker

[Raptorattacker]

It seems that THIS cookie's problems are not of any great importance in the scheme of things.

Come on, I LOVE my Warbirds and this is reeeally upsetting to a Warbird Lover... 

@NineLine

[Art-J]

You'll have to be patient, young padawan. For example, last week we "celebrated" the first anniversary of left/right-reversed wheel animation bug on Mustang, still not fixed. Your report will have to wait at least a year as well  .

In the meantime, you might go back to more oldschool (ie. screenshots rather than vids) method of promoting your cool skins.

P.S.- Have you tried what worked for me? Playing the track after reboot and with all controllers plugged off?

Edited April 25 by Art-J

[Raptorattacker]

4 hours ago, Art-J said:

You'll have to be patient, young padawan. For example, last week we "celebrated" the first anniversary of left/right-reversed wheel animation bug on Mustang, still not fixed. Your report will have to wait at least a year as well  .

In the meantime, you might go back to more oldschool (ie. screenshots rather than vids) method of promoting your cool skins.

P.S.- Have you tried what worked for me? Playing the track after reboot and with all controllers plugged off?

No, I can't say I have tried that. I will give that a spin, maybe tomorrow.
I like the 'young' padawan! For someone of my advancing years that must make you a relative codger!! 

[Slippa]

The plot thickens. Those video clips give me flashbacks of our Mossie nightmares and all the suspension jiggery-pokery.

Somewhere in another thread I was reading about possible bugs with the USB connections. I’ve had loads of crazy stuff go on with my controllers unplugging themselves then plugging themselves in again. Maybe there’s something in that? I’ve had CTDs and regular freezes, in MP trying to use the German map is a toboggan ride into near epilepsy, not exactly what I was expecting .

Is there another ‘ol skool’ way of recording your flights then editing those? Won’t fix the tracks problems but if unplugging and rebooting doesn’t work you might have to go the other way.

*Wanders off with echoes of that bloody ‘pew-pew’ tailwheel breaking sample.

[Raptorattacker]

On 4/25/2025 at 9:02 PM, Slippa said:

Is there another ‘ol skool’ way of recording your flights then editing those? Won’t fix the tracks problems but if unplugging and rebooting doesn’t work you might have to go the other way.

Nope. I can't stand any videos that are exclusively all from in the cockpit unless they're instructional.

One interesting point is that the AI don't suffer these vast shenanigans in replays. I did a taxi of me (in a Mustang) and an AI Mustang, Thunderbolt and Mosquito and NONE were suffering. All this while mine was crashing and banging with wheels hub-deep in concrete and a rear wheel castering every which way apart from where it should be!!

[-0303-]

Something is off with P-51 replay.

The gauges for VSI, ball & turn, G-meter differ wildly from live (also explodes sometimes). Also see Raptorattacker first video. VSI manages to climb / descent 1000 feet / min while taxiing, ball is whack and turn differ.

Spitfire and Bf 109 gauges mirrors replay vs live very nicely, also they don't explode and their wheels don't dig into the ground (alternatively looking momentarily punctured as P-51 does). No comment P-47, Mosquito, don't have them (yet).

Recorded P-51, Spitfire and Bf 109 live and replay, made videos. Note, HOTAS is physically disconnected, just keyboard. So HOTAS or USB, not culprits.

All video: Batumi Caucasus. Lower left live, three other quadrants different replays, video frame synced to visual cue at start, sound mixed.

Interestingly, every replay is different. It's not the live version and then identical replays. P-51 video:

• Sometimes P-51 explodes (usually at the end but once halfway and another at 3/4). Also damage list after exploding differ between replays (not in this video but often).
•  gear breaks visually differently
•  external viewing angle differs slightly (despite same replay file)
•  wheels sink into the ground differently. Shouldn't sink at all of course, Spitfire & Bf 109 wheels don't.

I've seen Spitfire replays differ as well, specifically external view sometimes zoom in closer. I take this to apply to all modules, all input, keyboard or HOTAS. Not calling differing replay inputs a bug, artifact of CPU busyness maybe. Am calling P-51 replay (all three: TF-51, P51D-25, P51D-30) gauge disparity, wheel digging and explodiness a bug.

If this affects "new gear" P-51, P-47 & Mosquito, ED should fix it before implementing it elsewhere.

There's another P-51 bug, probably unrelated because it's from 2020 at least. I'll post that separately: Unlike every other module, P-51 seem to take damage on spawn (reserved link space).

If Youtube defaults to 480, change to max resolution (1440?) for best quality, helps seeing the P-51 wheel digging. Also external view data strip in middle very readable at full-screen (Speed, G's for example).

Attached P-51 track. Setup completely kosher, no mods, verified install ("repair DCS"), fresh Saved Games.

P-51:

Spitfire: https://youtu.be/kh6BRNLgQ8Y

Bf 109: https://youtu.be/h3d9BO5KWG0

20250608 P-51D-30 taxi replay no hotas Batumi Caucasus test.trk

Edited Wednesday at 01:19 AM by -0303-
Changed some words for clarity, nothing substantial

[rob10]

10 hours ago, -0303- said:

Interestingly, every replay is different. It's not the live version and then identical replays. P-51 video:

Track files are not a "replay" of what happened.  They were originally designed as a debug tool and they record inputs and use those inputs to attempt to recreate what happened.  So if you made a quick input that didn't get recorded (it won't be recording every since instant) or a random variable is involved in something that occurs you'll get totally different results.  That's not a P-51 thing, that's a track thing.  ED have said they may try to make a new actual replay function, but it will only happen when they find dev time to do it, and they aren't even claiming that's a short term thing, so don't anticipate that anytime soon.

And none of that is a bug, just a limitation of the current track system.

Edited Wednesday at 03:03 AM by rob10

[Art-J]

^ All true, but for whatever reason, new landing gear code seems to have made track system even less reliable than before. It's not a widespread "hot topic" because that extra deterioration affects only 3 niche aircraft in the whole DCS ecosystem right now - Mustang, Jug and Mossie. Once it affects top sellers though, Vipers, Hornets etc., I suspect torches and pitchforks will be raised .

Edited Thursday at 06:03 AM by Art-J

[Raptorattacker]

NEW UPDATE (with WW2 content...)
STILL NOT FIXED

FOR PAID MODULES THIS IS STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!!

Just sayin'...

[Raptorattacker]

On 6/18/2025 at 4:02 AM, rob10 said:

Track files are not a "replay" of what happened.  They were originally designed as a debug tool and they record inputs and use those inputs to attempt to recreate what happened.  So if you made a quick input that didn't get recorded (it won't be recording every since instant) or a random variable is involved in something that occurs you'll get totally different results.  That's not a P-51 thing, that's a track thing.  ED have said they may try to make a new actual replay function, but it will only happen when they find dev time to do it, and they aren't even claiming that's a short term thing, so don't anticipate that anytime soon.

And none of that is a bug, just a limitation of the current track system.

No, I agree. HOWEVER, imagine having just got DCS World and wanting to see yourself in your brand new Mustang/Mosquito/Thunderbolt and being faced with THESE results???
It doesn't happen to ANY of the others, WW2 or not. They are ALL paid for modules. They ALL cost money...
This has only started happening in the last few months and. as the saying goes, "If you don't tell the barman the beer is off then he won't know because he sells it, he doesn't drink it"...