SalakauHeadman Posted June 19 Posted June 19 ok im not sure if i should post this here or in the non bugs section but im genuinely curious: when landing the phantom no matter how much i butter the landing i notice that the nose will tend to just slam down quickly onto the runway despite me holding full aft stick. is this supposed to happen or is it something that is work in progress? ive flown other jets and usually i can hold the nose up to do an aerobraking but it seems like for the f4 it is the hardest to keep the nose up or slowly ease it down onto the runway. its almost like there is too much friction if that makes sense?
Zabuzard Posted June 19 Posted June 19 ok im not sure if i should post this here or in the non bugs section but im genuinely curious: when landing the phantom no matter how much i butter the landing i notice that the nose will tend to just slam down quickly onto the runway despite me holding full aft stick. is this supposed to happen or is it something that is work in progress? ive flown other jets and usually i can hold the nose up to do an aerobraking but it seems like for the f4 it is the hardest to keep the nose up or slowly ease it down onto the runway. its almost like there is too much friction if that makes sense?Please open the Control Indicator window to make sure you are actually "holding" the stick full aft. You can also check the stick visually in the cockpit.Because due to the bellows/bobweight system as soon as you land the system will start to push the stick forward as your speed decreases. Which means you have to progressively increase the strength with which you pull aft to counter the system. 2
SalakauHeadman Posted June 20 Author Posted June 20 14 hours ago, Zabuzard said: Please open the Control Indicator window to make sure you are actually "holding" the stick full aft. You can also check the stick visually in the cockpit. Because due to the bellows/bobweight system as soon as you land the system will start to push the stick forward as your speed decreases. Which means you have to progressively increase the strength with which you pull aft to counter the system. yea i looked at the controls indicator and the orange diamond is also full aft as soon as the main gears touchdown i pull it back i can see it going full aft. hence im not sure if im doing it correctly or if its just like that
SalakauHeadman Posted June 20 Author Posted June 20 16 minutes ago, SalakauHeadman said: yea i looked at the controls indicator and the orange diamond is also full aft as soon as the main gears touchdown i pull it back i can see it going full aft. hence im not sure if im doing it correctly or if its just like that ok so far the only way im able to let the nose slowly touchdown is to trim the stick until the nose keeps pitching up then to land i push the stick forward but is this even correct procedure? do people land like that?
Hiob Posted June 20 Posted June 20 Even though our Phantom is the Airforce variant, the Phantom was originally conceived as a carrier based Interceptor/Fighter. Maybe good aero braking characteristics were considered counter productive? Just guessing 3 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
Volator Posted June 20 Posted June 20 If you maintain some power until touchdown, you can lower the nose a little bit more gently, but all in all, our SMEs told us the F-4 could not aerobrake due to being quite nose-heavy. 2 1 1./JG71 "Richthofen" - Seven Eleven
SalakauHeadman Posted June 20 Author Posted June 20 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Volator said: If you maintain some power until touchdown, you can lower the nose a little bit more gently, but all in all, our SMEs told us the F-4 could not aerobrake due to being quite nose-heavy. oo i see i see.. cause i have seen some videos on youtube of european f4s landing with the nose not dropping so hard despite a quite steep descent, i remember seeing one where it landed so smoothly, so thats why i asked this cus i was curious for comparison this is one of the video i saw, notice the nose and then below is a recording of my landing where i try to land smoothly f4.mp4 it feels like the nose comes down a little too fast? Edited June 20 by SalakauHeadman
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted June 20 Posted June 20 29 minutes ago, SalakauHeadman said: f4.mp4 29 MB · 0 downloads it feels like the nose comes down a little too fast? That depends on how you land. It's tricky to keep the nose up and do proper aerobraking (it's tricky in the F-5 too for example) but you can certainly do it: I have done so on multiple occasions. 2 Spoiler Ryzen 7 9800X3D | 96GB G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5-6000 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 990Pro 4TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero VPC MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-curve extension | VPC CM3 throttle | VPC CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | VPC R1-Falcon pedals with damper | Pro Flight Trainer Puma OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings Win11 Pro 24H2 - VBS/HAGS/Game Mode ON
Volator Posted June 20 Posted June 20 Nice, your landing actually looked quite smooth. I've seen the nose-wheel drop much harder occasionally. But yes, in the Wittmund F-4 video, the nose comes down even slower, even though the pilot noticably cut the power before touch-down. It's a general thing in most DCS modules though, same with rotation on take-off. Gravity in DCS must be stronger, or the earth is stickier 1 1./JG71 "Richthofen" - Seven Eleven
Hiob Posted June 20 Posted June 20 Generally I find it helpful to be a bit on the faster side when landing the Phantom. I’d assume that would help with the nose drop tendency as well. She really doesn’t forgive being slow on approach. 2 "Muß ich denn jedes Mal, wenn ich sauge oder saugblase den Schlauchstecker in die Schlauchnut schieben?"
SalakauHeadman Posted June 20 Author Posted June 20 2 hours ago, Volator said: It's a general thing in most DCS modules though, same with rotation on take-off. Gravity in DCS must be stronger, or the earth is stickier ahh that make so much sense..... thought i was doing sometyhing wrong or something was off with the flight physics, guess it boils down to the core game itself. 2 hours ago, Volator said: Nice, your landing actually looked quite smooth. hahaha thanks dude! 1 hour ago, Hiob said: Generally I find it helpful to be a bit on the faster side when landing the Phantom. I’d assume that would help with the nose drop tendency as well. She really doesn’t forgive being slow on approach. yeah ive noticed that when i land just a little below 200kts then its easssier to hold the nose but if i try to do it onspeed then it slams down hard 1
Volator Posted June 20 Posted June 20 Uh, being shy of 200 kts is VERY fast. Baseline speed for the F-4F was 145 kts plus 2 kts per every 1000lbs fuel on board plus 2 kts. 1 1./JG71 "Richthofen" - Seven Eleven
Zabuzard Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) Worth noting that you have to be careful when you compare with other aircraft on YoutTube etc. The Phantom shown in the video is not the same as the one we have in-game and features some quite important differences when it comes to FM behavior. And even within the same aircraft variant there are different configurations leading to different results. For example the AOA unit conversation and especially the bellows/bobweights system had been adjusted and tuned a few times. We have observed similar when people compared the exterior sound with videos of F-4, not knowing that those have the BLC producing a very distinct sound. Im not an expert on the topic though, so I leave it up to someone else to elaborate. Edited June 20 by Zabuzard 2
SalakauHeadman Posted June 20 Author Posted June 20 36 minutes ago, Zabuzard said: Worth noting that you have to be careful when you compare with other aircraft on YoutTube etc. The Phantom shown in the video is not the same as the one we have in-game and features some quite important differences when it comes to FM behavior. And even within the same aircraft variant there are different configurations leading to different results. For example the AOA unit conversation and especially the bellows/bobweights system had been adjusted and tuned a few times. We have observed similar when people compared the exterior sound with videos of F-4, not knowing that those have the BLC producing a very distinct sound. Im not an expert on the topic though, so I leave it up to someone else to elaborate. oh yea that makes sense too i did not consider that.. 2 hours ago, Volator said: Uh, being shy of 200 kts is VERY fast. Baseline speed for the F-4F was 145 kts plus 2 kts per every 1000lbs fuel on board plus 2 kts. yea was just trying out different speeds to see how the nose down behaviour reacts to it and also thanks for this formula its gonna make things way easier for me 1
Recommended Posts