check procedures GeorgeAI and AGM-114L Not Lasing Part Deux

[GeoS72]

@BIGNEWY, et al:

Here is an example of GeorgeAI lasing a target beyond 8km then not lasing afterwards. He designated the target approx 2 times from 9999+ meters. The range decreased down to ~8,400m then no more lasing. I flew up close until landing next to the target. All the while, he would not lase. I purposely did not change any settings because I wanted to see if he would lase the target.

This is EXACTLY what I talked about in my previous thread here: George AI and AGM-114L Lasing and Fail to Fire Problems.

See my track and MIZ file.

2025-07-31 GeorgeAI-No Lase.trk AH-64 GeorgeAI Test.miz

[Floyd1212]

As you approach the targets and have George lase the target and then have him WAS missiles, he loads the target data to the missile and then stops lasing.  This is roughly at 8600m.  It's easy to miss because he was already lasing prior to you WASing missiles, so it didn't take the normal delay for the data to be loaded, but you do see it flash in white at the bottom-left of the High Action Display.  And then, as mentioned elsewhere in other threads, he will not lase again until you de-WAS missiles, or fire the missile, or switch him to SAL, etc.

You see the distance to the target continue to count down for a few seconds, but then it stops at 8400m, and George never never indicates he is in range (below 8km) and ready to fire.  I took over after you got another few km closer to the target and when I gave George consent to fire, he said "out of range" and wouldn't rifle.

I'm not sure why the distance to the target stops counting down at 8400m.  Is this a bug, or is there some reason why it stops estimating the distance?  Regardless, it confuses George into to thinking you are still out of range.

So, the fix is either have George continue to lase even after the target data is loaded, or at least have him periodically squirt the laser to update the range so at least he is aware of when he is in range and can fire.  Or if you really don't want George to lase ever again, give him some magic ability to know the distance to the target so he realizes he has crossed the magic 8km bubble and is in range.

[JaroGrozni]

I looks like a bug... I also reported this problem here:

 

Same problem, George stops lasing and doesn't shoot when in range...

[Ramius007]

Are you holding consent to fire button? Goarge is more accurate after doing this, also some vehicles deploy smoke screen, this can mess with accuraacy too, as it should. AGM 114L is milimiter radar guided Hellfire, not sure there is backup SLH guidance, I doubt

Edited yesterday at 11:43 AM by Ramius007

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

When using the TADS to generate a target location for the AGM-114L RF missile, the missile cannot receive updated target data from the TADS after the original target handover is complete (after the TARGET DATA? message is removed from the bottom of the TADS symbology). Re-lasing after the target handover is performed will not fix the problem. However, since the laser must also be used to measure the range to determine if the target is even in range prior to a target handover, the proper procedure is not to action RF missiles until you have determined that the target is indeed ready to be engaged, so that a reliable and up-to-date target handover can be performed immediately prior to missile launch.

When using George AI CPG, this means instructing him to action RF missiles after the target is within 8 kilometres and ready for a target handover and immediate launch.

hope that helps

[GeoS72]

@BIGNEWY, your recommendation requires many of us to change some in-grained procedures. The additional commands to lase/de-lase the target while GeorgeAI is de-WAS'ed will help. However, there are many instances where George AI would not lase/fire given constraints being met.

It will also be helpful to add the laser on/off command while RF missile is selected. Since there are times when maneuvers must be performed and the range to target or target orientation has changed. I have a wish list thread here for it: GeorgeAI Additional Function to RF Missile.

Let's keep this thread going for more input, please.

[BIGNEWY]

Thanks for the feedback and the link, yes the wish list thread is the best place for discussion.