COOP partially implemented

[AeriaGloria]

Radar and IRST will now pick up each others lost locks. 
 

In TP mode you get radar ranging, pressing lock transitions radar to STT as does laser range. 
 

You can fire Fox 1 from TP mode. 
 

Radar STTs in close combat modes. 
 

Not fully implemented for helmet, still won’t lock with radar from 30-60 degrees from nose. 
 

What I didn’t expect, if your in radar mode, and switch to TP within IRST lock range, it will switch to IRST leading. Similarly if you enter Radar leading from IRST lock, switching SUV knob further right to close combat will switch to IRST leading and then you can switch it back to normal TP scan if you don’t want it to STT beyond laser range and instead have radar ranging. 
 

However can’t seem to transition from IRST leading to radar by moving SUV knob, it drops lock. 

It seems you can be sure radar is in STT with IRST leading when you get the rhombus/diamond. 
 

However it allows you to use HPRF, so that hasn’t been implemented yet. 
 

It seems coop has functions with radar still in ILLUM, but you can’t enter radar ranging mode with IRST unless radar is in DUMMY/EKV. 
 

Oh and a bad side, even if in IRST mode and you activate radar STT or radar leading, you won’t get IFF and friend/foe switch won’t drop lock on friendly. You need SUV knob in radar mode for that 

[CrazyGman]

So how does this work with the known issue in the patch notes?

"Currently the HELMET COOP mode usage sequence has a bug if RADAR state was OFF, before mode was activated. As a workaround to correctly Lock a target using the radar as the supporting sensor in Сooperative mode (COOP), the radar must be on (ILLUM-DUMMY-OFF switch must be in the DUMMY position) BEFORE activating the IRST modes (IR, CC, HELMET, OPT). For this mode you need to also switch IRST modes using the CW CCW switch movement and not use the keys 3, 4, 5, or 6. Activating IRST modes using the keys does not ensure target lock by the radar as an additional channel in Сooperative mode. We plan to correct that for the next update."

SO does that mean the radar mode must be in dummy, not illum for the radar to lock in STT? Currently with the bug in place?

45 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Radar and IRST will now pick up each others lost locks. 
 

In TP mode you get radar ranging, pressing lock transitions radar to STT as does laser range. 
 

You can fire Fox 1 from TP mode. 
 

Radar STTs in close combat modes. 
 

Not fully implemented for helmet, still won’t lock with radar from 30-60 degrees from nose. 
 

What I didn’t expect, if your in radar mode, and switch to TP within IRST lock range, it will switch to IRST leading. Similarly if you enter Radar leading from IRST lock, switching SUV knob further right to close combat will switch to IRST leading and then you can switch it back to normal TP scan if you don’t want it to STT beyond laser range and instead have radar ranging. 
 

However can’t seem to transition from IRST leading to radar by moving SUV knob, it drops lock. 

It seems you can be sure radar is in STT with IRST leading when you get the rhombus/diamond. 
 

However it allows you to use HPRF, so that hasn’t been implemented yet. 
 

It seems coop has functions with radar still in ILLUM, but you can’t enter radar ranging mode with IRST unless radar is in DUMMY/EKV. 
 

Oh and a bad side, even if in IRST mode and you activate radar STT or radar leading, you won’t get IFF and friend/foe switch won’t drop lock on friendly. You need SUV knob in radar mode for that 

Also does this also include radar close combat mode where you still can't IFF, or is it only for the IRST close combat modes where you can't IFF?

Edited Wednesday at 11:52 PM by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, CrazyGman said:

So how does this work with the known issue in the patch notes?

"Currently the HELMET COOP mode usage sequence has a bug if RADAR state was OFF, before mode was activated. As a workaround to correctly Lock a target using the radar as the supporting sensor in Сooperative mode (COOP), the radar must be on (ILLUM-DUMMY-OFF switch must be in the DUMMY position) BEFORE activating the IRST modes (IR, CC, HELMET, OPT). For this mode you need to also switch IRST modes using the CW CCW switch movement and not use the keys 3, 4, 5, or 6. Activating IRST modes using the keys does not ensure target lock by the radar as an additional channel in Сooperative mode. We plan to correct that for the next update."

SO does that mean the radar mode must be in dummy, not illum for the radar to lock in STT? Currently with the bug in place?

Also does this also include radar close combat mode where you still can't IFF, or is it only for the IRST close combat modes where you can't IFF?

I can double check radar close combat. 
 

As for helmet it is as the notes say, you cannot lock with radar as primary sensor from 30-60 degrees off nose. 
 

You have to lock with IRST as primary from 0-30 degrees then switch to radar. The switch to radar might be automatic under some conditions such as exceeding IRST gimbal limits. 

[CrazyGman]

38 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

I can double check radar close combat. 
 

As for helmet it is as the notes say, you cannot lock with radar as primary sensor from 30-60 degrees off nose. 
 

You have to lock with IRST as primary from 0-30 degrees then switch to radar. The switch to radar might be automatic under some conditions such as exceeding IRST gimbal limits. 

So I'm also curious but according to the manual when using the helmet mounted sight we should just have to hold the lockon button, and the IR missiles will slave automatically to where the sight is looking and lock on as long as it's in their gimbal limits, but currently i don't belive that Is what is happening. It feels like the senor is locking first then handing off to missiles to lock onto. Or am I wrong there?

Edited yesterday at 01:41 AM by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

53 minutes ago, CrazyGman said:

So I'm also curious but according to the manual when using the helmet mounted sight we should just have to hold the lockon button, and the IR missiles will slave automatically to where the sight is looking and lock on as long as it's in their gimbal limits, but currently i don't belive that Is what is happening. It feels like the senor is locking first then handing off to missiles to lock onto. Or am I wrong there?

I think it’s working. You’ll notice when HMS is 30-45 degrees it won’t lock IRST at all but only R-73 giving you the dashed cross. R-73s might take a moment to get ready anyways 

[AeriaGloria]

Updates to be accurate to this patch 

Edit: damn forgot to put in that you need radar in dummy/EKV to get radar secondary work (such as radar ranging in TP search) 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[Balantup]

In helmet mode radar doesn't work outside 10km range (no ranging nor stt)

[AvroLanc]

I'm finding the interaction between all the different modes, particularly in regard to HMS both COOP and non-COOP very confusing.

Has anyone got a no BS reference for how it should work?

AeriaGloria's work is good, but could be made clearer......

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, Balantup said:

In helmet mode radar doesn't work outside 10km range (no ranging nor stt)

It’s not supposed to, it’s working in close combat mode 

 

5 hours ago, AvroLanc said:

I'm finding the interaction between all the different modes, particularly in regard to HMS both COOP and non-COOP very confusing.

Has anyone got a no BS reference for how it should work?

AeriaGloria's work is good, but could be made clearer......

I posted an updated graph. 
 

You have to understand that HMS mode is bugged right now. If you learn how it works now you will be messed up when fully implemented. 
 

Right now radar does not work beyond 30 degrees from nose unless you already have lock. Once implemented, it should work for the full 60 degrees range of the HMS. Right now IRST gets lock (up to its 30 degrees range slew limit) and radar is secondary. When implemented both should try to lock simultaneously and whatever locks is primary, allowing you to lock with radar from 30-60 degrees. 
 

I really tried to make my Graph easy, you don’t want to try and decode what the manual says! 
 

As my graph says, any close combat mode? Full radar STT. 
 

Within laser range in any mode? Full radar STT. 
 

Radar is only not STT during TP scan beyond laser range where it does ranging in scan mode. And pressing lock a second time will transition to Radar STT. 
 

Each sensor will pick up the lost lock of the other if they can. 
 

That is basically it

I tried to make my graph account for every scenario. 
 

In laser range? STT, IFF only radar mode. 
 

Outside laser range? I show that IFF works only in radar mode and TP scan works as I said above. 
 

With my graph I’m trying to show if radar is STT or not, IFF, and enemy RWR for each mode (if necessary, as mentioned in laser range they all work the same). 
 

As you can see with my graph, the only appreciable difference between modes is TP/IR scan outside laser range, and that radar gives IFF. There are small differences (vertical scan chosen mode is always primary, in HMS first one to lock is primary), but is essentially the same to the user. 

Edited 3 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

Radar: IRST locks when it can. Only mode with IFF

 TP scan:  beyond laser range it does ranging in scan mode. And pressing lock a second time will transition to Radar STT. Laser range changes Radar to STT. Enemy RWR shows search radar until radar STT. 
 

Vertical scan modes: Selected mode locks as primary sensor and other in background as secondary. Full Radar STT. IFF only in radar vertical scan. 

Helmet: Both try to lock at same time, first to lock is primary. Radar STT. 
 

Each sensor will pick up lost lock of other if possible. 

Firing/selecting Fox 1 enables radar.

If Radar is primary changing SUV knob to IRST mode changes IRST to primary if it has lock.

Edited 2 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[CrazyGman]

56 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

It’s not supposed to, it’s working in close combat mode 

 

I posted an updated graph. 
 

You have to understand that HMS mode is bugged right now. If you learn how it works now you will be messed up when fully implemented. 
 

Right now radar does not work beyond 30 degrees from nose unless you already have lock. Once implemented, it should work for the full 60 degrees range of the HMS. Right now IRST gets lock (up to its 30 degrees range slew limit) and radar is secondary. When implemented both should try to lock simultaneously and whatever locks is primary, allowing you to lock with radar from 30-60 degrees. 
 

I really tried to make my Graph easy, you don’t want to try and decode what the manual says! 
 

As my graph says, any close combat mode? Full radar STT. 
 

Within laser range in any mode? Full radar STT. 
 

Radar is only not STT during TP scan beyond laser range where it does ranging in scan mode. And pressing lock a second time will transition to Radar STT. 
 

Each sensor will pick up the lost lock of the other if they can. 
 

That is basically it

I tried to make my graph account for every scenario. 
 

In laser range? STT, IFF only radar mode. 
 

Outside laser range? I show that IFF works only in radar mode and TP scan works as I said above. 
 

With my graph I’m trying to show if radar is STT or not, IFF, and enemy RWR for each mode (if necessary, as mentioned in laser range they all work the same). 
 

As you can see with my graph, the only appreciable difference between modes is TP/IR scan outside laser range, and that radar gives IFF. There are small differences (vertical scan chosen mode is always primary, in HMS first one to lock is primary), but is essentially the same to the user. 

Pretty much in game you only get IFF if you lock with the radar as the primary sensor, either in auto, pursuit, or head on. Or the radar close combat mode. If you use "ANY" of the IRST modes -so anything outside of RAD on the selector-, even if you are using coop you won't get IFF for your target, though the radar will do a STT so you can get ranging and target vector and can slew radar missiles, but this "only" works right now if when in radar mode you switch into the dummy setting rather then illuminate, and from there you go into the IRST close combat modes. Which is the current bug.

Note: while being in dummy mode would normally prevent your radar from locking any thing in this instance with the bug it will lock, track and guide missiles in coop mode when you lock first with one of the IRST modes

Second note: if your going to go back into the RAD mode You will need to switch from dummy back to illuminated to lock anything again in rad mode.

Third note: you must be in dummy before switching out of rad mode to make coop work, if you switch to a IRST close combat mode, and then switch to dummy, coop doesn't work. 

Forth note. Currently the radar will lock in coop mode automatically without having to press anything also likely a bug

 

Edited 2 hours ago by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

1 minute ago, CrazyGman said:

Pretty much in game you only get IFF if you lock with the radar as the primary sensor, either in auto, pursuit, or head on. Or the radar close combat mode. If you use "ANY" of the IRST modes so anything outside of RAD on the selector, even if you are using coop you won't get IFF for your target, though the radar will do a STT so you can get ranging and target vector and can slew missiles, but this "only" works right now, if when in radar mode you switch into the dummy setting rather then illuminate, and from there you go into the IRSt close combat modes. Which is the current bug.

Note: while being in dummy mode would normally prevent your radar from locking any thing in this instance with the bug it will lock, track and guide missiles

Second note: if your going to go back into the RAD mode? You will need to switch from dummy back to illuminated to lock anything again in rad note.

Third note: you must be in dummy before switching out of rad mode to make coop work, if you switch to a IRST close combat mode, and then switch to dummy coop doesn't work. 

What bug? It’s supposed to work with radar in dummy. 

[CrazyGman]

10 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

What bug? It’s supposed to work with radar in dummy. 

Oh I misread the changelog. I assumed that the coop mode worked in illuminate (i thought dummy was just a training mode for simulated targeting) so I thought it was part of the bug

Edited 2 hours ago by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

9 minutes ago, CrazyGman said:

Oh I misread the changelog. I assumed that the coop mode worked in illuminate (i thought dummy was just a training mode for simulated targeting) so I thought it was part of the bug

The only part that should work with ILLUM is each sensor picking up the lost lock of the other. 
 

And fully implemented coop will force radar to MPRF