New Steam hardware inbound

[72westy]

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

As I said, you brought all this up yourself, before my first post.

You can't complain about others discussing what you brought up first.

That isn't the correct answer.

That poster said...

"DCS does run on steamdeck so it ought to run on the steam machine. I really can't imagine that it's a good option for it though."

(also posts specs for Steam machine)

CPU Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C/12T, up to 4.8GHz, 30W TDP

GPU Semi-custom AMD RDNA 3 28CUs, 2.45GHz sustained clock, 110W TDP, 8GB GDDR6

 

I posted what I posted because the SFF is a much better match than any other PC I have. Building a desktop or upgrading was not what this thread was (or should be) about. 

Edited Thursday at 10:35 PM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

The reality is that the SFF/miniPCs just aren't what you seem to think they are.

And when I responded to what you brought up, you claimed its not the subject.  You brought these things up, not me.

I've shown what you said, in the exact order you said it.  Factually, you mentioned the miniPC you bought as it relates to running DCS before my first post. 

I only posted responses based on what you had already said.  That's reality.  You can't complain when others simply respond to things you brought up.

Edited Thursday at 10:00 PM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

1 minute ago, kksnowbear said:

The reality is that the SFF/miniPCs just aren't what you seem to think they are.

And when I responded to what you brought up, you claimed its not the subject.  You brought these things up, not me.

 

And I seem to think they are what?

I know what I typed. Where did I mention the SFF is the way to go? That is reality.

[kksnowbear]

Well if we consider this thread and the other I linked, it's kind of obvious what you think SFF machines are.

I'm presenting a contrasting perspective.  They weren't 'all that' then...and they're still not.

[72westy]

8 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Well if we consider this thread and the other I linked, it's kind of obvious what you think SFF machines are.

I'm presenting a contrasting perspective.  They weren't 'all that' then...and they're still not.

Explains why I have a desktop. LOL!

Actually what your contrasting is that SFF shouldn't run anything at all.

Edited Thursday at 10:02 PM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, 72westy said:

Actually what your contrasting is that SFF shouldn't run anything at all.

Nope. Didn't say that, nor did I imply it. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I said their use is limited to a very few, very particular cases, otherwise there are better options.  And that's completely accurate.

(Incidentally, I should probably say that, in addition to the hundreds of gaming machines I've built, I've also been professionally associated with building and maintaining thousands of machines as small as/smaller than the miniPCs we're discussing here.  And I still own quite a few of those, too.  So I know those type machines and what they're good for.  Gaming isn't really it.  There are better options.)

Edited Thursday at 10:59 PM by kksnowbear

[Dragon1-1]

SFF machines have their niche, and that niche is corporate offices running stuff that's no more demanding than a large MS Excel sheet. Same as with AIO desktops. I suppose a console that would run Windows games would have some appeal (in Japan, maybe?), it could even be designed to handle the same level of graphics as consoles, but it'll never be a true high performance choice. 

[72westy]

20 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Nope. Didn't say that, nor did I imply it. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I said their use is limited to a very few, very particular cases, otherwise there are better options.  And that's completely accurate.

(Incidentally, I should probably say that, in addition to the hundreds of gaming machines I've built, I've also been professionally associated with building and maintaining thousands of machines as small as/smaller than the miniPCs we're discussing here.  And I still own quite a few of those, too.  So I know those type machines and what they're good for.  Gaming isn't really it.  There are better options.)

You didn't have to say it.

 

[kksnowbear]

I didn't say it.  Please dont put words in my mouth.

I specifically said they have use in very limited, particular circumstances.

That means I could not possibly have said or implied they "shouldn't run anything".

[72westy]

Just now, kksnowbear said:

I didn't say it.  Please dont put words in my mouth.

I specifically said they have use in very limited, particular circumstances.

That means I could not possibly have said or implied they "shouldn't run anything".

The same can be said of me. No one mentioned building a high performance rig until you came along. That isn't what the thread was about.

[kksnowbear]

19 minutes ago, 72westy said:

The same can be said of me. No one mentioned building a high performance rig until you came along. That isn't what the thread was about.

Nope.

Again, I've cited only what you've said, in the exact order you said it.

You mentioned the miniPC you bought before my first post. (9th post vs 10th).

The discussion that ensued was in response to the comments you made first.

You can't claim that wasn't the subject, and complain about others discussing it, when you're the first one who mentioned it.

 

Edited Thursday at 11:39 PM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

2 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

Nope.

Again, I've cited everything you've said, in the exact order you said it.

You mentioned the miniPC you bought before my first post. (9th post vs 10th).

The discussion that ensued was in response to the comments you made first.

You can't claim that wasn't the subject, and complain about others discussing it, when you're the first one who mentioned it.

I did mention it. But why? You didn't answer that correctly. Rather you answered it by putting your words into my mouth.

I'll ask again. Why do you believe I posted that answer to his reply? (I'll give you a hint...(it had nothing to do with what might be better).

The subject was of the Steam machine (SFF/mini PC) what else would it have been about?? Then you brought up it not being a good way. Of course it's not the best. That is not what I posted the 1st thru 9 posts were about. But it is an option for one. Understand not everyone is interested or capable of going the route you mention.

Edited Friday at 01:54 AM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

I'm not obligated to answer in a way you think is correct.  You're not in charge of interrogation around here.

You continue to ignore that you mentioned the miniPC you bought before I said anything.  Everything after that was discussion in response to what you said prior.  You brought it up, you made it part of the discussion.  Simple.

BTW If you're so familiar with the limitations of SFF, one would think you'd be careful to include some mention of it when you're extolling the virtues.  Yet it seems you only acknowledge that, once it's been conclusively demonstrated by someone else.  It would be far more responsible to say, up front, something like "SFF might not be appropriate for many circumstances, and the hardware isn't as powerful as the desktop equivalents...but it's an option if you have severely limited space".  If nothing else but to avoid misleading people who read this and don't understand the differences.  As it is, I'm the one saying all that, to prevent others from being misled.

Edited Friday at 12:03 AM by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

I'm not going to skim through two pages of posts, most of it filled with misunderstood back and forth posts.

What I'll say is this: We're witnessing something important here - potentially a new branch in PC gaming. This will have repercussions.

What Valve is showing isn’t a cheap solution for simmers or hardcore users. It’s a way to democratize PC gaming for the mainstream: people who lack the money or time to learn, build and maintain a gaming PC, but still want full guaranteed compatibility and proper support. Valve did all the research; they have the money and the means.

Most of us here aren’t the target audience. This is aimed at laymen who just want to get into PC gaming, buy games on Steam and play them, whether alone or with others, without worrying about hardware, drivers, BIOS tweaks and updates, OS, conflicts, or troubleshooting. Some of them will eventually grow into enthusiasts later.

If the rumored price for the Steam Machine ($800 to $1000) is accurate, it’ll be hard to match the same hardware, pre-built, fully tuned, ready-to-go, and backed by 24/7 support.
And pairing that with a highly optimized Linux-based OS (SteamOS) makes this not only competition for consoles, but a direct challenge to Windows.

I can already imagine more advanced users installing Linux distros on it (like Bazzite, Nobara, Pop!_OS, etc), running far lighter than Windows ever would, turning the machine into a lightweight, fully capable daily-use PC that still games well.
Meanwhile, SteamOS improvements (drivers, kernel, Vulkan), thanks to the involvement of major players like AMD, Nvidia, and Valve, will spill over into the wider Linux ecosystem, benefiting everyone.

At a time when PC hardware and game development feel stale, overpriced, and overly complex - consoles aren’t doing great either - and when younger generations love tech but hate technicalities, this fits perfectly. 
This might end up being even more important than many already expect.

The biggest impact won’t be the hardware itself - it will be:

1. The normalization of pre-built Linux gaming PCs.
This alone forces Microsoft to react, and also pushes OEMs to start taking Linux seriously.

2. The massive refinement SteamOS will bring to Linux gaming.
And as mentioned, all other distros benefit from that work - drivers, kernel, Vulkan, etc.

3. The existence of official support + console-like stability in a PC form factor.
This directly addresses the exact problem that the average user doesn’t want to deal with.

4. A “Steam Deck ×100” effect.
The Deck already shook the industry. A full Steam Machine will do it even more.

 

Edited Friday at 02:04 AM by LucShep

[72westy]

2 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

I'm not obligated to answer in a way you think is correct.  You're not in charge of interrogation around here.

You continue to ignore that you mentioned the miniPC you bought before I said anything.  Everything after that was discussion in response to what you said prior.  You brought it up, you made it part of the discussion.  Simple.

BTW If you're so familiar with the limitations of SFF, one would think you'd be careful to include some mention of it when you're extolling the virtues.  Yet it seems you only acknowledge that, once it's been conclusively demonstrated by someone else.  It would be far more responsible to say, up front, something like "SFF might not be appropriate for many circumstances, and the hardware isn't as powerful as the desktop equivalents...but it's an option if you have severely limited space".  If nothing else but to avoid misleading people who read this and don't understand the differences.  As it is, I'm the one saying all that, to prevent others from being misled.

I asked you why you thought I replied that response? Take a wild guess. This should be easy for you. (Hint: it had nothing to do with what might be better).

Again stop mentioning I mentioned the miniPC. I know that and did NOT say otherwise. Your first post took the subject off topic (better to build a gaming PC).  Duh...that is not what the post was about. If you 'read my posts carefully' you'd know that. We know the limitations of SFF/miniPC. There is no need to mention what is already known. Even the initial posts elude to that.

Edited Friday at 01:55 AM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

46 minutes ago, 72westy said:

Your first post took the subject off topic

My first post was simply a response to your bringing up the miniPC.  (9th post vs 10th, as I already said.)  You just want to claim it's "off topic" because it suits your purpose.  You want to restrict discussion to what you agree with.

You cannot mention something and then complain when others comment in response.  I responded to you, that's it.  My comments have been direct responses to yours, which you made before mine and to which I responded.  If my comments were "off topic" it's only because your comment about the miniPC were just as much "off topic" (by your logic).

And in any case, the Steam machine is also a miniPC/SFF machine...in which case my comments are still perfectly "on topic": SFF/miniPC machines - whether it's made by Valve (as per your first post) or whomever else - don't make very good gaming machines, partly because they use under powered non-desktop components, and also in part because they also have zero upgrade path.

Edited Friday at 02:33 AM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

17 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

My first post was simply a response to your bringing up the miniPC.  (9th post vs 10th, as I already said.)  You just want to claim it's "off topic" because it suits your purpose.  You want to restrict discussion to what you agree with.

You cannot mention something and then complain when others comment in response.  I responded to you, that's it.

Incorrect. It was brought up because the poster said it ran on a Steamdeck and then said it should (ought) to run on the Steam machine. I have (no idea given I have neither) but my son runs it (DCS) on his Acemagic Tank03 without issue. After he posted specs of the Steam machine. My desktop would not have been a good comparison. The claim of off topic is valid given none of the prior posts were of the topic....Build a gaming PC instead.

I can indeed complain when one completely misunderstands and can't answer the simple question aforementioned I just gave the answer to.

Edited Friday at 02:18 AM by 72westy

[diego999]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

I'm not going to skim through two pages of posts, most of it filled with misunderstood back and forth posts.

What I'll say is this: We're witnessing something important here - potentially a new branch in PC gaming. This will have repercussions.

What Valve is showing isn’t a cheap solution for simmers or hardcore users. It’s a way to democratize PC gaming for the mainstream: people who lack the money or time to learn, build and maintain a gaming PC, but still want full guaranteed compatibility and proper support. Valve did all the research; they have the money and the means.

Most of us here aren’t the target audience. This is aimed at laymen who just want to get into PC gaming, buy games on Steam and play them, whether alone or with others, without worrying about hardware, drivers, BIOS tweaks and updates, OS, conflicts, or troubleshooting. Some of them will eventually grow into enthusiasts later.

If the rumored price for the Steam Machine ($800 to $1000) is accurate, it’ll be hard to match the same hardware, pre-built, fully tuned, ready-to-go, and backed by 24/7 support.
And pairing that with a highly optimized Linux-based OS (SteamOS) makes this not only competition for consoles, but a direct challenge to Windows.

I can already imagine more advanced users installing Linux distros on it (like Bazzite, Nobara, Pop!_OS, etc), running far lighter than Windows ever would, turning the machine into a lightweight, fully capable daily-use PC that still games well.
Meanwhile, SteamOS improvements (drivers, kernel, Vulkan), thanks to the involvement of major players like AMD, Nvidia, and Valve, will spill over into the wider Linux ecosystem, benefiting everyone.

At a time when PC hardware and game development feel stale, overpriced, and overly complex - consoles aren’t doing great either - and when younger generations love tech but hate technicalities, this fits perfectly. 
This might end up being even more important than many already expect.

The biggest impact won’t be the hardware itself - it will be:

1. The normalization of pre-built Linux gaming PCs.
This alone forces Microsoft to react, and also pushes OEMs to start taking Linux seriously.

2. The massive refinement SteamOS will bring to Linux gaming.
And as mentioned, all other distros benefit from that work - drivers, kernel, Vulkan, etc.

3. The existence of official support + console-like stability in a PC form factor.
This directly addresses the exact problem that the average user doesn’t want to deal with.

4. A “Steam Deck ×100” effect.
The Deck already shook the industry. A full Steam Machine will do it even more.

 

 

Spot on. This is what I thought when I heard the news.

Cheap PC gaming with full Steam support and all the console advantages.

Looks promising but it all depends on the price.

 

 

[kksnowbear]

I am not required to answer your question.

My comments were all perfectly on topic of your first post, since the Steam machine you brought up is also a SFF/miniPC.

These machines, Steam or whatever, are notoriously underpowered because they use scaled down, cut back variants of regular desktop components.  They also have no upgrade potential whatsoever in any meaningful way.  These two facts make the machines very undesirable as capable gaming machines.

Other people in this thread have said essentially the same thing...so I guess every post that doesn't agree with you is "off topic", then  

Edited Friday at 02:30 AM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

5 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

I am not required to answer your question.

My comments were all perfectly on topic of your first post, since the Steam machine you brought up is also a SFF/miniPC.

These machines, Steam or whatever, are notoriously underpowered because they use scaled down, cut back variants of regular desktop components.  They also have no upgrade potential whatsoever in any meaningful way.  These two facts make the machines very undesirable as capable gaming machines.

Again we KNOW that. Stop repeating what we already know. I gave you the answer, so need need to answer it. We are NOT talking of building a gaming machine.

Now will DCS run on the machine? Currently no, it needs Vulkan API if only running Linux. Which I believe Eagle is still working on Vulkan.

Edited Friday at 02:36 AM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

You claimed my comments were off topic.  The Steam machine is also a SFF machine, so my comments were completely on the topic in your first post.  Everything I said was just detail backing up my point (and all absolutely accurate).  Still 100% on the topic of Steam hardware as you brought up in your very first post.

Edited Friday at 02:38 AM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

Just now, kksnowbear said:

You claimed my comments were off topic.  The Steam machine is also a SFF machine, so my comments were completely on the topic in your first post.  Everything I said was just detail backing up my point (and all absolutely accurate).  Still on he topic of Steam hardware as you brought up in your very first post.

Again we KNOW that. No one has stated otherwise.

[kksnowbear]

3 minutes ago, 72westy said:

Again we KNOW that. No one has stated otherwise.

You said my comments were off topic.  They are 100% on the topic of your first post.  And it happens they also absolutely apply to the miniPC which you brought up in the 10th post.

Either way, nothing I've said is off topic.

Edited Friday at 02:43 AM by kksnowbear

[72westy]

Just now, kksnowbear said:

You said my comments were off topic.  They are 100% on the topic of your first post.  And it happens they also apply to the miniPC you brought up in the 10th post.

Either way, nothing I've said is off topic.

It was 'off topic' in the sense we aren't (or weren't) talking of building the best gaming desktop PC. 

[kksnowbear]

18 minutes ago, 72westy said:

It was 'off topic' in the sense we aren't (or weren't) talking of building the best gaming desktop PC. 

The topic was Steam Hardware.  I responded to your comments about the Steam SFF/miniPC machine.  My comments also happen to apply likewise to any other SFF/miniPC.  I and others have said they don't make good gaming machines.

You seem to be fixated on the idea that my comments were about building the best desktop gaming PC.  That's not accurate.  My comments were all supporting detail as to why the (on topic) Steam machine aren't very good gaming PCs.  Other people said the same thing, so I guess everyone who disagrees with you is "off topic".

A discussion involving "building the best gaming PC" (as you now say) would obviously be an entirely different discussion.  My comments here have been completely confined and unquestionably related to the (on topic) SFF machines andwhy they don't make good gaming machines, not "how to build the best gaming PC".  If you can't understand that's a totally different discussion, I'm sorry, but that's not my fault.

(PS, I don't think you can show anywhere in this thread where I described "how to build the best gaming PC".  Pretty sure I haven't said anything like that.)

Edited Friday at 03:08 AM by kksnowbear