Trimming with FF

[mattag08]

I'm using a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2. When I press the trim button the trim doesn't hold in the direction I've input instead it holds on the opposite axis.

 

For instance, if I move the stick left and click trim and then allow the force feedback to neutralize the stick, the joystick will move forward and I pitch down. If I move the stick forward, click trim, and then neutralize the FFB I get an uncommanded roll to the right.

 

This continues around in a circular fashion so that:

Left cyclic + trim = Pitch down

Forward cyclic + trim = Bank right

Right cyclic + trim = Pitch up

Back cyclic + trim = Bank left

 

Arggg...I'm really just at a loss. Did I define a control wrong somewhere or is there some other issue at play here? I'm running on full realism settings and patched to 1.0.1c.

 

UPDATE:

Okay, I've got the axes resolved just fine, but there is something weird about the way the game assigns the FFB.

 

When I push forward and press trim the force feedback stops at a position that is closer to center than the one I've selected. So for instance, if I was to push my joystick full forward and hit the trim button the new force feedback center would be about half way between the true joystick center and full forward deflection. I thought the stick was supposed to stay wherever you release the trim button at. What gives?

Edited December 31, 2009 by mattag08

[sobek]

Welcome to the forum!!

 

That's what 'switch FF axis' is for in the FF settings page.

 

Btw. a little search in the forum would have gone a long way ;)

[mattag08]

Okay I'll look for that, I didn't see any options like that at all.

 

I did try to do a forum search, but gave up after the first couple searches because the stupid anti-bot filter is too damn hard to read. It would take me a minimum of 3 tries to get the filter text right. Blech. Thanks anyway though! :thumbup:

[mattag08]

Okay, I've got the axes resolved just fine, but there is something weird about the way the game assigns the FFB.

 

When I push forward and press trim the force feedback stops at a position that is closer to center than the one I've selected. So for instance, if I was to push my joystick full forward and hit the trim button the new force feedback center would be about half way between the true joystick center and full forward deflection. I thought the stick was supposed to stay wherever you release the trim button at. What gives?

[majapahit]

Okay, I've got the axes resolved just fine, but there is something weird about the way the game assigns the FFB.

 

When I push forward and press trim the force feedback stops at a position that is closer to center than the one I've selected. So for instance, if I was to push my joystick full forward and hit the trim button the new force feedback center would be about half way between the true joystick center and full forward deflection. I thought the stick was supposed to stay wherever you release the trim button at. What gives?

 

have the same issues

can remember in v.1 it all worked well

I 'somewhat' solved this by setting the forces to '44' instead of '100' and it flies ok with that. mt

[ArtMan_NL]

I have the same problem now. The chopper flies well but the stick isn't exactly in its centre. Maybe I still misunderstand the trimming with a force feedback.

 

Is there a topic about trimming with a microsoft force feedback? I found several topics about sticks and trimming without force feedback.

[majapahit]

I have the same problem now. The chopper flies well but the stick isn't exactly in its centre. Maybe I still misunderstand the trimming with a force feedback.

 

Is there a topic about trimming with a microsoft force feedback? I found several topics about sticks and trimming without force feedback.

with a FF it should Not be in the center

[mattag08]

So there isn't an answer here? I'm still having this issue.

[majapahit]

So there isn't an answer here? I'm still having this issue.

 

I just remembered

With a MS FF you Have To set 'Swap Axis' in the FF submenu

 

mt

[Breakpain]

I have a strange issu.

I have G940, when I hit the trim and move only 20% everything is ok ... When I move forexample 50%, then the FF will not hold my stick and it goes back to neutral position - and also in cocpit it goes to neutral :-( ... Sometimes my stick moves forward, backward several times ... like some bug but there is no input from me ... ?? Ofcourse, if I shut down FF, it work´s OK, but I want to have enabled FF :-( ... any advice?

 

Thank you, Ales.

[majapahit]

I have a strange issu.

I have G940, when I hit the trim and move only 20% everything is ok ... When I move forexample 50%, then the FF will not hold my stick and it goes back to neutral position - and also in cocpit it goes to neutral :-( ... Sometimes my stick moves forward, backward several times ... like some bug but there is no input from me ... ?? Ofcourse, if I shut down FF, it work´s OK, but I want to have enabled FF :-( ... any advice?

 

Thank you, Ales.

 

same: lower the FF Trim force ~33-40, helps here

[Breakpain]

same: lower the FF Trim force ~33-40, helps here

You mean FF in DCS or FF in logitech profiler ?

 

I did it in both (DCS, profiler), but no succes :-( ...

I tried even 0%, 30% ... nothing :( ... Joy still comes back to center, or just shake to some directions (from neutral to trimmed point ... )

Edited January 24, 2010 by Breakpain

[majapahit]

You mean FF in DCS or FF in logitech profiler ?

 

I did it in both (DCS, profiler), but no succes :-( ...

I tried even 0%, 30% ... nothing :( ... Joy still comes back to center, or just shake to some directions (from neutral to trimmed point ... )

 

you have 'use centered joystick' UNchecked in options? mt

[Breakpain]

you have 'use centered joystick' UNchecked in options? mt

 

Yes, in my case it is the lowest option - picture ... Or you think somewhere else? I know, on print screen it is checked, but when I was testing, - it was unchecked and then I tested with this option checked ...

 

[Haukka81]

Yes, in my case it is the lowest option - picture ... Or you think somewhere else? I know, on print screen it is checked, but when I was testing, - it was unchecked and then I tested with this option checked ...

 

 

I think that he means in game trim settings..

[majapahit]

I think that he means in game trim settings..

exactly

I mean in BS game options

and of course in your Logitech software, centering should be OFF also

 

or rather, your Logitech software does the same as the FF setup in the Control Axis of BS

so you have to experiment with the settings

 

I suggest you keep BS FF to 100%

and weaken indeed, exactly those settings in you Logitech page 'spring''damper''centering'

of which 'centering' is the 'unrealistic' setting, for the real BS will stay at an angle after trimming

 

 

by the way, now that I se you do Not have a MS Sidewinder FF

you should Not check 'swap axis' in the FF setup of your logitech FF, this setting was for a MS FF bug

Edited January 25, 2010 by majapahit

[Breakpain]

exactly

I mean in BS game options

and of course in your Logitech software, centering should be OFF also

 

or rather, your Logitech software does the same as the FF setup in the Control Axis of BS

so you have to experiment with the settings

 

I suggest you keep BS FF to 100%

and weaken indeed, exactly those settings in you Logitech page 'spring''damper''centering'

of which 'centering' is the 'unrealistic' setting, for the real BS will stay at an angle after trimming

 

 

by the way, now that I se you do Not have a MS Sidewinder FF

you should Not check 'swap axis' in the FF setup of your logitech FF, this setting was for a MS FF bug

 

Profiler:

 

FF enabled

- overall effect (FF) 100%

- spring effect 0%

- damper effect 0%

 

Centerign spring - disabled

 

even if I change values - no difference.

 

Also in game, if I set in FF tune the FF to lower value - 30% .. nothing, 0% nothing, joystick still want to go back to center :( ... Changing of these values seems to be without any effect :-( ...

 

And yes, I have Logitech joystick and ofcourse I didn´t swap the axes ;-) ... (I also tried it, but any difference was, that it was reversed, with the same effect :-( ...)

 

questin - if you shoot from cannon, do you feel with FF on some vibrations on joystick? For example if I fire in Sturmovik, I feel it on joy, but in DCS if I shoot, don´t recognize anything on joystick ... is that normal?

Edited January 25, 2010 by Breakpain

[mattag08]

Okay, I've got the axes resolved just fine, but there is something weird about the way the game assigns the FFB.

 

When I push forward and press trim the force feedback stops at a position that is closer to center than the one I've selected. So for instance, if I was to push my joystick full forward and hit the trim button the new force feedback center would be about half way between the true joystick center and full forward deflection. I thought the stick was supposed to stay wherever you release the trim button at. What gives?

I finally fixed this issue. If you're having this problem then you probably changed your X/Y axes' curves. Once I returned them to zero curvature the force feedback trim started working flawlessly. Perhaps this is something DCS could look into? The fact that you can't use force feedback trim and adjust your curves for the sensitivity you want is pretty lame.

[majapahit]

I finally fixed this issue. .. returned them to zero curvature the force feedback trim started working flawlessly.

 

wow, this brought back my use of MS FF

great find

and a bad bug indeed

 

thx, mt

[Breakpain]

Now I know my solution for G940. Everything work fine with the trim button, unless I put away my hand. Bu the trim should work even if I am not touching the joystick, right. Whenever I put my hand away, joystick get back to neutral position, and why? It has a sensor, that knows, if your hand on it (it works Ok), or if you hand is away (automaticaly centered). There is the problem. So I took a sticker, put it over the sensor and now, it holds trim position, even if my hand is away, cool :-).