FC2 A2A Changes

[Alfa]

Sounds like good changes allround, but a couple of things seem a little odd to me:

 

Fuzes have been given more realistic triggering distances - the most powerful are the AIM-120 and R-77.

 

How come these have the longest triggering distances?

 

For longer ranged missiles larger warheads help to compensate for lower "end-game" agility, so surely there is a connection between prox. fuze range/warhead size - since e.g. the R-27 warhead is almost twice the size of the AIM-120/R-77 ones, you would expect the fuze triggering range to be longer too......what about AIM-54 and R-33? :) .

 

Maybe older/newer was a bad term. Let's say more/less powerful for now.

In terms of the flyables, the MiG has the weakest jammer and the Eagle and Flanker the most powerful.

 

What was the rationale behind making the MiG-29S jammer(Gardeniya-1) the "weakest"?.

 

I can imagine that the compact nature of this system(built-in waveguides) makes it less "powerful", but as far as the "older/newer" thing is concerned, the Gardeniya-1 system is more recent than the Sorbsiya(at least the version equipping the "baseline" Su-27 and Su-33) and since we are talking about jammers of the deception type, this would seem as important for effeciency as pure output power.

[RvEYoda]

How come these have the longest triggering distances?

 

For longer ranged missiles larger warheads help to compensate for lower "end-game" agility, so surely there is a connection between prox. fuze range/warhead size - since e.g. the R-27 warhead is almost twice the size of the AIM-120/R-77 ones, you would expect the fuze triggering range to be longer too......what about AIM-54 and R-33? :) .

 

 

Improving player fired missile realism was prioritized above ai missiles afaik.

The fuzes of the real 120 was increases simply to the number of the real missile (50ft).

R-27 missiles were set to represent their particular real fuze range

 

I don't think there was any real information on the R-77, at least not to my knowledge,

you'd need to ask the developers, but it was set to the same value as the 120.

 

Indeed the R27 has a huge warhead, but, who is to say that means the fuze must be more efficient,

or the 120 doesn't have some other tricks up its sleeve? :)

 

------

 

Then about the Jammers I think that would also be a question to the devs, at least I did not have

anything to do with it, although I think the choices made will greatly improve gameplay.

Edited March 25, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[Wilde]

• Very significant resistance of radar missiles to chaff unless you put them on your 3-9.
  
• Chaff resistance is AIM-120C > Other ARH > SARH
  

 

Ok, then how would I kill an Eagle from my Flanker without dying myself? How do I have to navigate to put the Slammer on my 3 or 9 without breaking the lock on the Eagle?

[ZaltysZ]

Ok, then how would I kill an Eagle from my Flanker without dying myself? How do I have to navigate to put the Slammer on my 3 or 9 without breaking the lock on the Eagle?

 

You need a wingman or stupid Eagle. :smilewink:

[Boberro]

Or do a lot of trainings :D

[RvEYoda]

Ok, then how would I kill an Eagle from my Flanker without dying myself? How do I have to navigate to put the Slammer on my 3 or 9 without breaking the lock on the Eagle?

 

Well chaff might still work on more head on aspects, but the question is really how to use

what your plane is good at. If you keep the firing ranges long you can out-ammo/out-range

the F-15 with its aim120. When the missile is slow, and you fly fast, it will break its seeker's

gimbal limits even from a simple wide barrel roll.

 

Get that enemy F-15 on the defensive! Break his missile with energy and then don't

let him come back offensive. If he goes beam, you can too!, Both break each others missiles

and you both come back head on. Remember it works both ways; if he has an R-27ER inbound

he needs to defend. If he doesn't? -- Smokin eagle --

 

 

I'm sure you can think of many ideas. I think there are a few ideas and possibly some

demonstration tracks that may be included in the fc2 release.

Edited March 25, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[Wilde]

When the missile is slow, and you fly fast, it will break its seeker's gimbal limits even from a simple wide barrel roll.

 

Ah, I missed the gimbal limit thing. Well, it's gonna be interesting to find out how it works. Can't be worse than the broken mechanics we had.

[RvEYoda]

Also I don't think this was mentioned in the list: The Su-27 has received a significant engine

overhaul to more closely match its real capabilities. It should be a mach 2 capable aircraft after all!

[Fahhh]

Ok, then how would I kill an Eagle from my Flanker without dying myself? How do I have to navigate to put the Slammer on my 3 or 9 without breaking the lock on the Eagle?

 

If you know what you're doing, I believe it won't be that hard . In the Flanker you've got a range advantage, so you can fire earlier, and the missile will fly faster. If you point in a direction other than him, and use some tricks to drain your enemy's missile energy by maximizing it's flight path towards you, you'll still have the advantage. Simple chaffs won't fool the ER that easily, and your Eagle enemy will still pretty much need to hold lock on you until missile pitbull in order to up the Pk. In the final phase, his missile will go active, and you lose the advantage, but if you have played your cards well, you would have gotten him, or made him go defensive. In worst case scenario you'd both be defensive and ready for another fight.

 

So I think the changes are going to help the game-play and especially the BVR fights will get even more interesting :)

[Boberro]

Also I don't think this was mentioned in the list: The Su-27 has received a significant engine

overhaul to more closely match its real capabilities. It should be a mach 2 capable aircraft after all!

 

So I understand Su-33 as well too?

 

If so come back for a while my birdy ^^

[RvEYoda]

So I understand Su-33 as well too?

 

If so come back for a while my birdy ^^

 

will ask

[Kuky]

To me the larger the warhead the larger the lethal radius of the weapon, so you could think logically the fuze of the missile would allow for greater distance, having said that to me too does not make sense that for R-27ER lethal radius is less then 120 or 77.

 

Beside, what's the point of having missile with more tricks if its warhead is less lethal? It just means it needs more close "hit"

[RvEYoda]

To me the larger the warhead the larger the lethal radius of the weapon, so you could think logically the fuze of the missile would allow for greater distance, having said that to me too does not make sense that for R-27ER lethal radius is less then 120 or 77.

 

Beside, what's the point of having missile with more tricks if its warhead is less lethal? It just means it needs more close "hit"

 

Some of us (myself included) thought like you at first, that the R-27ER and other missiles

with larger warheads would have larger fuzes, but turns out it wasnt always so. Fuzes are

now modelled as the real weapon's specific fuze range.

 

You will need to ask the devs to get a more detailed answer than that, for several reasons.

Edited March 25, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[Kuky]

but you don't have this info for R-77 so it was a guesstimate and matched with 120? Do you guys have good info on the R-27ER?

[Boberro]

To me the larger the warhead the larger the lethal radius of the weapon, so you could think logically the fuze of the missile would allow for greater distance, having said that to me too does not make sense that for R-27ER lethal radius is less then 120 or 77.

 

Beside, what's the point of having missile with more tricks if its warhead is less lethal? It just means it needs more close "hit"

 

 

For me too... bigger warhead = bigger power = bigger range of effective damage.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Boberro

[RvEYoda]

but you don't have this info for R-77 so it was a guesstimate and matched with 120? Do you guys have good info on the R-27ER?

 

I don't have r77 myself, that doesn't mean the devs dont have. There is definite info on

R-27(ER) and Aim-120 yep.

[pauldy]

Thanks for the update ^^

[GGTharos]

The FUZE is the device that triggers the warhead to explode.

 

They are two completely separate, independent things - bigger warhead does not mean longer ranged fuze.

 

The AIM-120 and R-77 are much newer missiles with much more modern warheads, capable of dealing damage farther out at speed despite the reduced mass (alternatively, they are more accurate, something FC cannot represent) and more modern warheads, capable of sensing target proximity at a greater range.

[Sanch0]

So everything important about S/ARH missiles has been described. What about IR missiles? Any changes with flares and heat modeling on planes?

[GGTharos]

Same modeling as in FC1, with the exception of not searching for target if launched without seeker lock.

[Wilde]

Does this also mean heaters will not "re-lock" anything if the lock has been broken?

[104th_Crunch]

Does this also mean heaters will not "re-lock" anything if the lock has been broken?

 

It wouldn't make sense not to relock anything again. The IR seeker should switch and lock on to a new IR signature if it is larger than the original signature. Like a flare. If it didn't relock on to a new signature, then flares would not work. I guess the behaviour will be the same as 1.12 with maybe the exception of a smaller seeker detection radius maybe.

[GGTharos]

That is correct to some extent - they have a very narrow fov which means re-attack is unlikely, but if something happens to wonder into their FOV they might go for it. It is best to use heaters within their designated parameters for maximum performance. That said, heaters are silent and I think the ET will still be king of speak attacks.

 

Does this also mean heaters will not "re-lock" anything if the lock has been broken?

Edited March 25, 2010 by GGTharos

[104th_Crunch]

Should it not actually out turn the F-15 and Su-27?

 

Never mind, I see from the charts at lockon.co.uk that The MiG has about has about a 3 degrees less rate of sustained turn than the Su-27 at their best turn speed. For sure it seems worse than 3 degrees in FC 1.12.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Crunch

[Rikus]

AI changes:

 

AI will now notch with an accuracy corresponding to their skill. This means that while an excellent AI can lose most of your missiles, an average AI will most likely be hit. While the note on this may be short, the change in gameplay is big.

 

Ia an excellent AI better than the best pilots in the world? i mean, is so good flying that is not real?

 

Wich is the more realistic skill, high?

 

Greetings