RaMGen, would you pay for it?

[tolgab]

Was just wondering, I'd so much like to have the RaMGen for FC2 and BS, I am willing to pay for it, even if they come as two different programs.

 

How many of you would be willing to pay for it?

[tn_prvteye]

I'd be willing to buy DoctorK a copy of FC2 if that means we see a RamGen for it.

[Nate--IRL--]

As long as the price is reasonable, I would have no problem contributing.

 

Nate

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Was just wondering, I'd so much like to have the RaMGen for FC2 and BS, I am willing to pay for it, even if they come as two different programs.

 

How many of you would be willing to pay for it?

Well, what is RaMGen? Random Mission Generator? Who is working on it?

[coolts]

As I mentioned in my “FC2.0 first impressions” post, here;

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=863143#post863143

 

IMO, RamGen, or something like it would be a really good project for modders to finally give us the Falcon-like dynamic campaign we have been after for years since……..Falcon. A dynamic campaign is not on the ED roadmap for understandable reasons, so it’s up to the modders in the interim.

 

Not easy to do, but with RamGEN surely we are halfway there?

 

[EDIT: RamGen http://www.lockonfiles.com/ is a RAndon Mission GENerator. ]

Edited March 31, 2010 by coolts

[RedTiger]

I said "yes" just to make it known that I'd like to see it, but why would we have to pay for something that was done for free before? That's like asking if we'd pay for TacView or ModMan.

[Vekiq]

I said "yes" just to make it known that I'd like to see it, but why would we have to pay for something that was done for free before? That's like asking if we'd pay for TacView or ModMan.

 

 

well, i disagree slightly.

If you spend time making something you should be rewarded for your work. When something is paid product you do get more than just a piece of software, there would be support, additional content, development and so on.

 

I would be the first one to support bunch of guys who do such things from their bedrooms in their free time, i always have soft spot for underdogs.

[Distiler]

If it makes dynamic campaign for multiplayer I'd say yes, but if it is like now (campaigns are just for single player) I wouldn't collaborate.

Anyway, I think Yoda was thinking about doing a dynamic campaign for DCS/FC2.

[tn_prvteye]

Any program that will just give me some random missions in single player would be great. Doesn't necessarily have to be "Dynamic". DoctorK's RamGen was exactly what I was looking for.

 

Even if we had some sort of FC --> FC2 mission converter it would be okay by me. The only problem being the new airbases and the ones that got removed.

[Dr_Arrow]

I would certainly pay for it. I think that it is the only way of getting some good dynamic campaign for FC 2. A very good dynamic campaign engine has been also recently implemented for Rise of Flight. Things could even go further and 3rd party dynamic campaign engine could also be fully supported by ED. For me the lack of good campaigns and missions has always been the only gripe with the series.

[Moa]

I've been working on a dynamic campaign software every night for a month (started once I heard BlackShark mission format same as FC2, although it turns out there are some differences) and intend completing in a couple of months. There is a lot to do though, including:

1) read (mostly complete) and write of mission files

2) randomization of existing missions

3) generation of new missions

4) parsing results of battles (stats)

5) generation of new missions as a result of battles (dynamic campaign).

 

This won't be done overnight. RamGen gets to Stage 3 (for FC1.12) of these objectives and I'm sure required a lot of hard work from its creator. I'm hoping that RamGen will continue to be developed in parallel with my own 'dynamiccampaign' software. This gives players a choice of which system they like (I'm sure there's plenty of room for both, and each will cater to different tastes).

 

I already have a stats system running (for FC1.1.2) and you can see the output at http://stallturn.com/scores/. This stats needs to be adjusted for FC2.0 and I'm also working on that. Once the stats software has been adjusted then that solves the 'feedback' part of the dynamic campaign.

 

I'll most likely release my product and source under the GPLv3 license and for no charge. It's written in Java (since I mostly work on Linux and my MacBook, depending on which machine is closer) so will work perfectly on any version of Windows (and every other platform except for XBox360 and iPhone, damn you MS and Apple!).

 

Meanwhile, I suggest some of you learn how to use the mission editor. It's not that hard and it means you'll be able to 'tie your own shoelaces' rather than wait for others to make missions for you. You could even make missions and (gasp!) contribute back to the community.

 

Sorry, I'm being cynical here, harsh maybe, but if I'm willing to spend hundreds of hours of my limited free time making software then perhaps some of you could spend ten hours making a mission and sharing it - just in case the thought of contributing had not crossing your mind.

 

I am interested in hearing about scenarios you would like to play. Personally, I'm more of a sim fan so I don't mind unbalanced missions (the reason I play LockOn rather than HAWX). I realise that not the only way to play though (especially for younger folk getting into the hobby). It also keeps me motivated on developing when I'd much rather be in-game flying :)

Edited March 31, 2010 by Moa
typos!

[coolts]

That's us told! Good on you mate. I would be prepared to pay for something that provided sufficient entertainment value or got us nearer the promised land of fully dynamic persistent campaigns.

 

As homer Simpson said, "money can be exchanged for goods and services".

 

Looking forward to your app.

 

Meanwhile, I shall be in the parlour preparing my mission!

 

;()

Edited March 31, 2010 by coolts

[tn_prvteye]

This is completely awesome! Your post had made my week. Can't wait to try it out.

 

And I have messed with the ME some (just setting up some basic missions to try out tactics). But I'm afraid I don't have the imagination to come up with any interesting missions. :(

[RedTiger]

well, i disagree slightly.

If you spend time making something you should be rewarded for your work. When something is paid product you do get more than just a piece of software, there would be support, additional content, development and so on.

 

I would be the first one to support bunch of guys who do such things from their bedrooms in their free time, i always have soft spot for underdogs.

 

The poll is...odd...because we have a person who is not affiliated with the software asking whether we'd pay for something that is has been free, is free, and has never even been suggested to be payware at some point in the future. That's like making a poll if we'd pay for Saitek programming software.

 

The answer to that should be "Uh, hasn't it always been free?", or "Who the hell are you? Do you work for Saitek?" or "Huh? *scratches head*" The OP didn't provide enough details for the poll to make any sense. Does he know something we don't know about RamGen developement? Is he affiliated with the program? Etc.

Edited April 1, 2010 by RedTiger

[RedTiger]

I've been working on a dynamic campaign software every night for a month

 

*snip*

 

 

That's a tall order, Moa. I salute you for attempting this. What you are developing sounds like a true dynamic campaign as opposed to what Falcon has. What Falcon has is better described as a sandbox than a dynamic campaign.

 

Games/sims that go the sandbox route tend to make you pay for the open-endedness somewhere else. The world is usually highly simplified, the AI does completely stupid and unrealistic things, and if your goals are randomly generated, they either don't make sense or are also higly simplistic.

[Moa]

That's a tall order, Moa. I salute you for attempting this. What you are developing sounds like a true dynamic campaign as opposed to what Falcon has. What Falcon has is better described as a sandbox than a dynamic campaign.

 

Games/sims that go the sandbox route tend to make you pay for the open-endedness somewhere else. The world is usually highly simplified, the AI does completely stupid and unrealistic things, and if your goals are randomly generated, they either don't make sense or are also higly simplistic.

 

Thanks RedTiger. Yes, it is a *lot* of work which is why I'm hoping to do it progressively in the stages I mentioned. Plus, I already have some of the parts (a real-time stats system for FC1.1.2). That way people can fiddle with an 'instant action' generator (for both A2A & A2G, since I'm mostly a mud mover) while the real dynamic campaign will take much longer to develop. I'm sure the generation AI will be retarded to begin with but it will evolve to something acceptable with use I'm sure.

 

Incidentally, the dynamic campaign shouldn't affect the smoothness of gameplay in the least. New missions are generated *after* each mission (although the stats are collected in real-time) and dynamic in-mission activity is handled by trigger conditions generated when the mission was created (I'll be picking 3Sqn_Grimes brain further on this as he has many good ideas).

 

I think the original poster was trying to say he's so keen for a mission generator of any kind (not even a dynamic campaign) that'd he'd pay for it and wondered how many others there would be as well - in the hope of inducing someone to produce it (eg. DoctorK). I'm a big believer in Free Software (as in liberty) so don't need the cash to motivate me (although working on it full-time would be awesome!).

[Vekiq]

The poll is...odd...because we have a person who is not affiliated with the software asking whether we'd pay for something that is has been free, is free, and has never even been suggested to be payware at some point in the future. That's like making a poll if we'd pay for Saitek programming software.

 

The answer to that should be "Uh, hasn't it always been free?", or "Who the hell are you? Do you work for Saitek?" or "Huh? *scratches head*" The OP didn't provide enough details for the poll to make any sense. Does he know something we don't know about RamGen developement? Is he affiliated with the program? Etc.

 

Your thought process is is sound Tiger. It never crossed my mind that it could be marketing machine from one of big guys talking.

[Grimes]

the AI does completely stupid and unrealistic things,

 

They tend do that anyways :D

 

On topic. It is an incredibly difficult task to create a mission generator so I salute Moa for trying. One mission of mine has 61000 lines of code when you open it up via WinRar! On a related note. I'm creating a little app that is more used as a Mission Designers Assistant. It simply creates specific "trigrules" that require the Mission Designer to fill in some of the specifics within the ME itself. Its more of a advanced copy and paste tool than anything. Just something to automate repetitive trigger creation. But I'm expanding it whenever I find something I could use it for.

[RedTiger]

They tend do that anyways :D

 

 

If you're talking about FC/BS, no, actually not on the level I'm talking about. I'm happy to say in every Eagle Dynamics product I've ever played, ships stay in the water where they belong and tanks don't drive up to each other hull to hull and shoot past each other -- all on a battalion level scale! But hey, at least all that is totally dynamic! :smartass: Missions also tend to not involve flying directly over a field of SA-10s to take out a couple of Osa class missile boats on day one of WWIII.

Edited April 2, 2010 by RedTiger