Stupid SAMs!

[pyro1588]

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but DAMN! I started the oil campaign part 2 tonight, flew towards the target area, then popped up for a second to take a look. My wingman called SAM launch. I popped flares and tried to evade. BOOM! Dead before I could even locate the first enemy. I know it's unrealistic to have a targeting radar or FLIR, but holy hell are these SAMs getting old. I just don't have the perfect 30km vision that my AI buddy does. I can't spot camouflaged AAA sitting in the middle of a city 10km out. They're CAMOUFLAGED, for crying out loud!

 

Anyway, I guess I'm not so much looking for help as I am wondering if anyone can successfully tackle these missions. How do you deal with threats you just can't see? Or do people just design missions that are a little more laid-out for a bird that's based on visual targeting and data links from other aircraft that aren't implemented?

[Frederf]

Most missions for DCS:BS are borderline suicidal from a realism standpoint so don't feel too bad.

 

SAMs fall into 2 general categories: short-range IR and long-range RADAR. The short-range are the hardest because they are plentiful and small. Thankfully they can usually be out-ranged with Vikhr, assuming you can find them.

 

Defense has two normal aspects and a third emergency aspect. Detection and standoff is normal aspect No. 1 which you know well with No. 2 being "making yourself a hard target." You can do a lot (especially against the rather simple AI) to make the situation favorable for survival before SAM launch that does not count on seeing them first.

 

Going back to No. 1, use the AI to recon the target area if they are so good at it. Use the datalink to identify threats, erase them after they are taken out. The AI wingman is rather liable to get shot down so it's a double-edged sword this method.

 

Terrain utilization can in many cases make it possible to be shot at but not exposed. Missile is launched, put mountain between you and it, missile hits mountain. Similarly one can mutually reveal yourself to the world in a slow motion so that the rate of new territory one is exposed to is controlled. Flying over a ridge before a town makes one vulnerable to the entire town all at once. Stepping out slowly behind a hilltop exposes yourself to the town gradually. Control the rate and extent that you expose yourself.

 

Exposure can often be reduce by your aspect. Head-on gives the enemy an easy target and requires of you the most maneuvering to put the missile on your beam or to otherwise evade. Do slashing runs through imaginary circles around the target area watching for activity. Keep the speed up, the angles large, and eyes peeled. The AI won't be able to resist that low-Pk shot giving his position away.

 

If you're getting hit with RADAR SAMs follow the immortal Bob Newhart's advice and STOP IT! Staying out of the sensor coverage of these long spears is pretty easy to do, especially altitude-wise. They are generally deep into enemy territory which you usually do not need to go.

 

AAA is nature's way of telling you to stay a little farther away and to travel faster. It just takes a little change to make dumb rounds miss if you have the mobility.

[Achurro]

Most missions for DCS:BS are borderline suicidal from a realism standpoint so don't feel too bad.

....

 

That's it ! Just if you reach the nearest place to a SAM you'll bit him... from two km of distance, the SAM it's uneffective.. and you can show your jaws !!

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Achurrillo#p/u/9/XBL-l-OIoi8

 

Bye !

[ARM505]

Also, the intel available pre-mission in these sims can be a little 'lacking' to say the least. IRL, an amazingly detailed picture of threat types and location (may not be exact, but at least enough to be useable) is built up. In BS, it's generally 'The target will be defended by six S300 sites, but we're not sure where they are. All we know is you'll definitely have to go deep into their defended airspace to do what we told you to. So, goodbye, and I'll be taking those nice shoes you have once we've got final confirmation of your certain death.'

[LIONPRIDE]

I know it's been said a thousand times before, but DAMN! I started the oil campaign part 2 tonight, flew towards the target area, then popped up for a second to take a look ...

 

Most missions have a second picture (tab) involved in the de-brief where you can get a visual representation of the threats. Are you viewing this info?

 

Frederf gave some 'by-the-book" info there - BZ

 

 

.

[Wags]

In regards to the Oil War missions, most of the SAMs are concentrated around indicated enemy positions identified on the briefing map. These locations are also pre-loaded as Target Points (TP) in your navigation computer.

 

Knowing where the enemy is likely located, standoff over 6 km and use the Shkval and your wingmen in Recon mode to locate the SAMs before moving in closer.

 

Almost all the SAMs are short-range, IR systems (SA-9 and SA-13). No S300 nonsense. There is an occasional 2S6 in the rear areas. There are no medium or long range radar-guided SAM systems in the camp. All air defense units (SAM and AAA) are on random chance of appearing triggers, so each may or may not be there each time you play the mission.

 

There were some Rolands in the first version of the camp, but those were removed in the patch.

 

If you still have problems there are always labels you can turn on to help with the learning curve.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Wags

[F16_Matz]

Especially since they see through terrain objects. I remember doing one missing where I was sneaking into an urban area, low using buildings and hills as cover. When I stopped behind a large hill with some buildings on top. I started hearing explosions coming from a building next to me. I peaked around the corner of the of the building and right there at the bottom of the hill was a sam, pounding the house I was hiding behind.

 

Another mission I was tasked to destroy some HQ. I decided to flank wide and pop up to find a safe route to target, bypassing all the stuff in between. After scouting for a while, I found an open path through the forest leading all the way to the HQ. I went down below tree top level, following the path to the HQ when suddenly my wingman started shooting flares. I stopped and looked around, no way anyone could see or lock us, or? Suddenly a SAM comes flying out of the forest at my 12 o'clock and flies straight into my cockpit :D