Dual Rudder Axis - How?

[JasonJ]

[edit : Resolved at post #7 below]

 

 

Hi,

 

I use a G25's (steering wheel) pedals for BlackShark's flight rudder pedals.

 

Accelerate - Heli Right Rudder

Clutch - Heli Left Rudder

Brake - Heli Wheel Brake

 

Mainly using these pedals because my sim rig is primarially for driving. I do have a collective (car's handbrake) and an extra cyclic joystick as part of my rig.

 

I can't figure out how to make two separate axis (using Accelerate and Clutch on G25) control left rudder and right rudder separately. It seems only one axis can control the rudder axis alone. If you want to control left rudder or right rudder separtely you HAVE to assign a button there's no option to use an axis of any sort for each left/right rudder.

 

Currently to allow me to use my G25 pedals as heli rudder pedals I'm using Joy2Key and have the accelerator and clutch mapped to 'z' and 'x' keys and have the game configured to use 'z' and 'x' as rudder left/right. This is no fun because it means either full lock rudder or none at all. Hard to fly when the controls aren't smooth.

 

I tried to configure two axes to the rudder axis, [ JOYSLIDER2:JOY_Y ] and tried to mess with the custom curves, but the game seemed to ignore the secondary axis.

 

Is it possible to do what I want, that is - have both my clutch and accelerator axes mapped to a left rudder AXIS and right rudder AXIS?

 

Thanks for help.

 

e: Oh yeh, I did a search on forum, but came up with nothing like this.

Edited April 13, 2010 by JasonJ
RESOLVED

[zdXu]

Hi,

 

I use a G25's (steering wheel) peddals for BlackShark's flight rudder peddals.

 

Accelerate - Heli Right Rudder

Clutch - Heli Left Rudder

Brake - Heli Wheel Brake

 

 

You have to adjust in your G25-setting-option (default: windows/system/printer and other hardware / gamecontroller/ G25) the option "independ pedals" or something like this.

 

Is it possible to do what I want, that is - have both my clutch and accelerator axes mapped to a left rudder AXIS and right rudder AXIS?

Yes

Edited April 11, 2010 by zdXu

[JasonJ]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yep, sorry should have mentioned I've already tried that. (Combined pedals) Problem is that G25 ONLY combines the pedals for the Accelerator + Brake. Not how I need it which is the Accelerator and Clutch - I'm weird I know - but I have my reasons. It's much nicer using the Clutch and Accelerator as rudder pedals for two reasons;

- the outside pedals are more even in their spring, G25 brake is quite stiffly springed.

- the brake is dead centre of my cockpit.

 

But thanks for trying.

Edited April 11, 2010 by JasonJ

[Nasty]

i have g25 too and only way how u can make that work is open the pedals and swap clutch and brake wires so u have combined pedals which work clutch and gas pedal.

 

when u play car simulator there put independent pedals correct place and that is.

[JasonJ]

I was totally was thinking that was a way to do it over coffee this morning. ;)

 

Was not keen do do it because I got a 5 year warranty on my G25. I'm already noticing the sequential shifter POTs are getting twitchy after 12 months. Don't want to lose the chance of a return. But then again - they'd prob replace it with a G27 which I do not want. :doh: I like the choice of sequential/gated shifting on the G25.

 

 

 

 

MOUSE OPTION?

 

OK, so maybe I can use the mouse axis to control rudder? Joy2Key can convert wheel pedal axis inputs to mouse output equivalent so that would be a workable solution.

There seems to be an option in DCS:BS in the Controls >> Axis Commands menu. But when I tried to assign Mouse X <--- ---> to the rudder axis, the mouse did not seem to influence the rudder in game. Is this supposed to work? I was sceptical on this idea because the mouse is required in game to use the virtual cockpit. No use if the mouse is slewing right to left as a rudder?

Edited April 12, 2010 by JasonJ

[Xerxes84]

Hi JasonJ

 

Just saw this thread - i have the G25 too and i use it in this way:

 

Accelerate - Heli Right Rudder

Clutch - Heli Left Rudder

Brake - Heli Wheel Brake

 

Its a little bit difficult to manage this, but I found a tutorial in a forum, but it is in german - i try to translate it and will repost soon :)

[Xerxes84]

Thats the way how it works (all credits go to the user "tolgamat" from http://www.lockonforum.de & sry for my english ;))

 

 

First of all, it is important that you use this settings for your G25:

 

 

On the screen on the right, the box that the pedals are recognized as 1 axis have to be unchecked!!

 

After this, you start Black Shark, in the Options Screen Select "Axis commands" - klick on "Flight control rudder" and press:

 

- the Accelartion pedal for Rudder right (and select JOY_Y for this)

- the clutch pedal for Rudder left (select JOY_SLIDER2 for this)

 

Your options screen should now look like this:

 

 

Now you klick "AXIS TUNE" in the right bottom of the screen - Select the axis you wanna tune and be sure you have exactly the same settings as in my screen:

 

For "JOY_Y" (Rudder right)

 

For "JOY_SLIDER2" (Rudder left)

 

 

Thats it :D

 

 

Finally, for the Wheelbrake, just select the option "Wheel brake" and assign it to your brake pedal:

 

 

 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask - as i wrote before, it sounds a little bit complicated, but try to make this step by step und take closer look to the options menü and you will see, its easy going :thumbup: (again, sry for my english^^)

 

 

have fun

Edited April 12, 2010 by Xerxes84
Corrected some errors, thanks to "JasonJ"

[average_pilot]

I'd use glovepie and ppjoy for something like that.

But I'm curious to see that translation.

[JasonJ]

Thanks man i will try this out.

[JasonJ]

This is it! The controls are now configured directly inside the game. No external program is required. No rewiring of the G25 is required.

 

I tried something very similar (mapped two axes to the single rudder axis), but couldn't figure the exact saturate/slider/invert options. I was close, but no cigar.:huh: So it was no problem figuring out what you meant.

BTW: your English is really quite fine mate, no problems there.

 

OK, one little thing I should mention is you typed

select JOY_Z & JOY_SLIDER1

yet in the axis tune pictures it you had

JOY_Y & JOY_SLIDER2

 

That's ok, I just assumed you made a typo and I just used JOY_Y & JOY_SLIDER2 and that worked.

(For everyone else, when you are unsure what axis/button to use in the controls menu you can just depress it or hit the button and the game will bring it up for you)

 

Worked a treat and I am very grateful. Thank you for taking the time to post that detailed set of instructions. Big ups to you man. :thumbup: I will enjoy much more my hours in the Black Shark thanks to you.

 

NOW I CAN CO-ORDINATE MY TURNS TO THE MILLIMETRE. IS VERY NICE :D

Edited April 12, 2010 by JasonJ

[Xerxes84]

You`re right, i made some mistakes (JOY_SLIDER1 instead of JOY_SLIDER2)... I am going to correct them, so if anybody else needs help to configure the G25 can follow this post!

 

I am happy it works for you, wish you nice flying :thumbup:

[JasonJ]

Thanks again. I used what I learned from this to fix another problem I had with absolute camera horizontal view by playing with the saturations. :lol: I kept looking behind me into the cabin wall. Now it only looks to the side.

[Nasty]

wow thanks man this is awesome to get work like that. now i know better too but i dont swap wires anymore back :D

[JasonJ]

Yep Nasty - and extra bonus is you don't have to keep remembering to reconfigure Combined Pedals in Logitec Profiler when you change games.

Edited April 13, 2010 by JasonJ

[Nasty]

yeah, swap wires like orginal and test that system and my old g25 pedals not work correct like that :( so wire swapping them back :).

 

problem come my pedals if i have little pushed example right pedal and try push left my axis go mad , and if use combined pedal that work like charm if u push other little and other much that axis go still where u push more.

[JasonJ]

That sux. Sorry you waste your time there. Logitech use crappy POTs - it's a fact.

[Nasty]

yeah manufacturs use crappy components. Cost much and allways got piece of crap :( . And dont worry that test is so easy and not cost much time and now i know g25 pots suck too , so next mission is replace pots like i do my hotas cougar. hotas is big joke what u get much money, need fix x,y axis or that destroy it self damn fast.

[Xerxes84]

You are right Nasty, i know this problem too!

 

But if you use "real rudder pedals" you can just push ONE pedal. But no doubt its a problem if you touch the pedal unintended and the heli goes mad, but this is the only way i wanna use the G25 pedals (i am more pilot than racer, so in future i'll try to sell the G25 and buy pedals from Saitek/Ch - so i don't wanna swapping wires ore something like that).

 

Just tested this in Flaming Cliffs 2.0, finally i can use Clutch/Acceleration as pedals in this game too - in LockON/FC1.12b this fix didn't work!

 

Regards

[Nasty]

yeah but if use real pedals u can push both and stronger leg win but heli not go mad :)

 

i only say i cant live with that my wire swap work perfect cos that is real combined axis and that axis not go mess if i keep my foot that pedal.

[Quirkitized]

THANK YOU Xerxes84 !!!

 

 

This worked PERFECT for Black Shark and A-10C!!

[ivanwfr]

Thanks to #7

Here's my nicely working Logitech G27 Rudder solution: Deadzone 10% along with a smooth curve around both pedals released position (attached screenshots).

 

In fact, one of the required deadzone is the Saturation X zone, the one at the max value end, near slider max.

 

The only catch was: There is a weird little issue about how Saturation X is displayed when you select both Slider and Invert options.

 

This was in fact the only reason why it took me some time to have this racing wheel Clutch and Accelerator behave (nearly) as a perfect rudder.

 

I say nearly only because you can't touch one pedal without first completely releasing the other. Activating both results in a mixed flow of values that apply at random in opposite directions.

 

To my understanding, to reflect what happens in-game, the displayed Saturation X portion should change side when you check the Invert option, quite like how the red dot does.

 

I'm ready to open a Trouble Ticket about that if I get confirmation from others who would successfully take advantage of this reversed-Saturation-X solution.

Edited May 20, 2011 by ivanwfr

[nic464]

Hi, i got a problem with this. I got a leo bodnar g25 pedal mod. So it put my pedal in 3 axes. But when I am setting it up as explained, the inverted one is ok but the other one is like in negative. It is constantly put force on it and if i invert it too its now on the same axe as the other one :S

 

Thanks for the help!

 

(just so you know Im on DCS A-10c and not black shark)

Edited September 15, 2011 by nic464

[ivanwfr]

Maybe if you attached the same relevant screenshots, we could see where the IN and OUT dots are when pedals are at rest.

 

Then as - SO SADLY - Logitech "drivers" are in also in the loop, plus your mod, each adding to this rather tricky scaffolding :music_whistling:

 

But let's look for a solution...

[nic464]

Here's some screen. My pedal isnt working anymore with a logitech program. It is running as a 3 axis joypad in windows and they are working great in other games..

 

Thanks a lot !

 

(sorry for my english it is not my primary language :S)

[ivanwfr]

As I recall, you've just missed the most important part about this mixture spice. Everything is in the curves near those red dots.

 

Nothing must happen there: NEARLY NULL CURVATURE does the magic... Kind of DEAD ZONE where both pedals keep doing nothing until you touch ONE of them (never both, no matter how lightly)

 

*** If you don't do that, they keep fighting against each other, no matter how small values are involved, they just flood the sim input resulting in random and useless deviations.

 

Try to make them look like mine and tell us about the result.

 

BTW... what is your native language, it could be we have the same ;)