Impact of clouds and fog on AI, is there any?

[Speed]

Sorry if this has been answered, I used search, and found nothing.

 

What is the effect, if any, of clouds and fog on AI? I tried testing it out by putting a pair of Zu-23s on Ural-375s in the middle of level 10 fog, but they still shot me anyways, even when I was 1.5 km away! They could see me like it was clear outside :( So, from this test, I must conclude that weather effects are not included in calculating AI detection and engagement ranges? Is that correct?

[EvilBivol-1]

Various visibility calculations are made for ground attack aircaft AI when attacking ground targets, but not yet the other way around. Something for the future.

 

Here is a summary of the visibility modeling currently implemented. Note, this was during the development of Black Shark and may have been somewhat altered since:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=457097&postcount=1

[Major SNAFU]

Hmmmm.

 

This comes as a bit of a shock.

[Speed]

What about aircraft doing air to air? If they are using their Mk1 eyeballs to sense me, can I hide in fog? What about IR missiles? Do you reduce or eliminate their max engagement ranges based on fog yet?

 

I'm really asking this because I want to make a "run the gauntlet" DCS mission- you have to run down a valley filled with thick fog, and go pure instruments, to avoid getting shot down by enemies that are in or above the fog, and if you get above the fog, you die.

[Scooternutz]

Speed, I have a hard enough time finishing your previous missions. I will say that flying over that ridge the other night was pretty scary. I can't imagine flying through a valley with zero vis. What kind of speed are we talking about?

[Speed]

What kind of speed are we talking about?

 

The loud, beeping kind :)

[zdXu]

I'm really asking this because I want to make a "run the gauntlet" DCS mission- you have to run down a valley filled with thick fog, and go pure instruments, to avoid getting shot down by enemies that are in or above the fog, and if you get above the fog, you die.

 

Sounds like another fantasy-mission with no realism-connection.

 

I hope you know that the instrument-meteorological-conditions(IMC)-rules for helicopters are not so far away from the IMC-rules for fixed wing-airplanes.

 

For fixed-wing: airports with visibility under 800 meters are normaly closed (no take-off, no landings, except for emergency-situations).

For fixed-wing: airports with visibility between 800m and 1600m: approach ONLY with ILS. No ILS in plane, no landing.

http://www.ivao.be/files/Military_Metar_Codes_v1.5.pdf

(see page 3 ff military color-code etc.)

 

So

fog=1 is IMO DCS-BS = visibility 1000m, ILS-approach, no ILS = no landing.

fog=2 is IMO DCS-BS = visibility 500m, no take-off-clearence, no landings except in case of emergencies.

 

And you are talking about "heavy fog" = 5 or more in a combat-situation.

fog=5 in DCS-BS is IMO visibility = 60m!

fog=10 in DCS-BS is IMO visibility = 2 m!

 

Here is an article about IMC-conditions for helicopters.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6530450/Helicopter-Instrument-Procedures

[Speed]

Sounds like another fantasy-mission with no realism-connection.

 

I hope you know that the instrument-meteorological-conditions(IMC)-rules for helicopters are not so far away from the IMC-rules for fixed wing-airplanes.

 

For fixed-wing: airports with visibility under 800 meters are normaly closed (no take-off, no landings, except for emergency-situations).

For fixed-wing: airports with visibility between 800m and 1600m: approach ONLY with ILS. No ILS in plane, no landing.

http://www.ivao.be/files/Military_Metar_Codes_v1.5.pdf

(see page 3 ff military color-code etc.)

 

So

fog=1 is IMO DCS-BS = visibility 1000m, ILS-approach, no ILS = no landing.

fog=2 is IMO DCS-BS = visibility 500m, no take-off-clearence, no landings except in case of emergencies.

 

And you are talking about "heavy fog" = 5 or more in a combat-situation.

fog=5 in DCS-BS is IMO visibility = 60m!

fog=10 in DCS-BS is IMO visibility = 2 m!

 

Here is an article about IMC-conditions for helicopters.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6530450/Helicopter-Instrument-Procedures

 

Honestly, I don't care. I wanted to quickly build a quick but highly challenging mission that is simply ment to be a fun and extreme test of instrument flying skills. I am just looking for feedback on what impact clouds and fog have on all aspects of AI, nothing else.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Speed

[Scooternutz]

Having flown in helicopters for a few years I have been in the Nevada mountains for cross country NOE flights with and without NVGs. "There I was" RTB was called and we had perfect gas for the trip back. Doppler and hover checks were complete at the range pad after hot fuel. We knew the route. Slight drizzle and the base seemed lower. Good vis under the goo but rain was getting heavy. We were approximately 40 miles East of NAS Fallon. HAC decided to go up and transit IFR to marker. Main gearbox chip light went off as soon as additional torque was added to the percentage. Settled and decreased to 10 knots. Reapplied collective and no go on chips. Decision time. Set down in rocky terrain, turn around and get deeper in the woods, or fly heads down to open land. HAC was heads down, 2P was trying to see out the window. Rain, mist, and fog made it very scary very fast. By slowing to 30 knots, knowing the nav charts and trusting IFR, we made it back.

Without the chip light we would have gained altitude above highest crest if possible, a lot if high peaks with the added 6000 ASL on the alt. We could have turned back to better conditions (big gamble) we could have flown over the top of lowest peak all on IFR. We could have set down on the range, provided we made it back, but it was deemed a safe route to push through. We had just enough vis to see about .2 to .3 miles off the nose which was enough.

 

This future mission will be a great tool.

 

An SH-60B was in this situation during a cross country to an airshow at Nellis. The helo flew straight into a mountain. All four crewmen ignored their instruments and group think took over. They were trusting what they were feeling, vertigo, rather than IFR.

 

Under ideal conditions the guessers will give you an accurate forecast. If in a bad situation the human factor will always make it worse. IFR all the way. The redundancy will keep you from flying your aircraft into objects. During any inclement weather IFR applies.

 

I was in a mission the other night and was transiting a high peak under poor visibility and my first instinct was to turn around, check ins, and proceed with caution. What amazes me is how guys that have never flown military airframes get it in sims.

 

My wingy the other night had the same conditions and picked a reference point that he knew was clear for transit over the peak. He was able to get spotty vis over the peak but kept his nose towards his reference and made it over without incident.

 

I love this community and the sim!

 

Note on the chip light: A metal detection device that detects chips, flakes, and chunks of metal in the hydraulic filtering return system. The chip creates a short in the screen and lights the Chip Warning Detection. SOP is clearing the filter and performing an FCF (Functional Check Flight). If the chip clears, cleared for safe flight. Ours was a short due to the rain which is odd because it is very hard for water to get to it. Maintenance tried to A-799 it but it showed up on the FCF again.

 

There is a lot left out and I am not writing novels here. Been at 8800 feet with dual engine failure and made it! That was in the TOFT at North Island though. In reality never got above 15 feet. :)

 

There has to be some helo pilots or AWs out there with more stories!

Edited April 23, 2010 by Scooternutz

[Scooternutz]

For fixed-wing: airports with visibility between 800m and 1600m: approach ONLY with ILS. No ILS in plane, no landing.

http://www.ivao.be/files/Military_Metar_Codes_v1.5.pdf

(see page 3 ff military color-code etc.)

 

This is really cool stuff. I didn't know IVAO did this.