Missiles changes in FC 2.0

[topol-m]

Could someone post a list of the changes of air-to-air missiles ranges in FC 2.0 compared to the ones in FC 1.12b? Standard conditions - speed, aspect (preferably head on), altitude.

[MoGas]

u even fly topol-m, I can't remember youre name on any server-stats at all?

[Case]

Check here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=51220

 

This has been around for a good month already.

[topol-m]

Check here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=51220

 

This has been around for a good month already.

 

Yeah, I`ve seen this thread but no exact ranges there. I need something accurate if someone has the data, like for example: FC 1.12b: Su-27 vs F-15/11000m/head on/both with 1200km/h - Aim-120 launch autorization at ... km, R-27ER LA at..., R-73..., Aim-9...; FC 2.0:...

 

u even fly topol-m, I can't remember youre name on any server-stats at all?

 

I don`use that name ;)

Edited May 1, 2010 by topol-m

[MoGas]

And what is youre name?

[topol-m]

And what is youre name?

 

My name is irrelevant as I haven`t played multi for about an year. Anyways, what is this sudden interest towards my nickname in this missiles thread? :)

[Grimes]

My name is irrelevant as I haven`t played multi for about an year. Anyways, what is this sudden interest towards my nickname in this missiles thread? :)

 

zomg its because player name effects missile performance!!!!!!

 

nah actually it has nothing to do with it. The thread case posted pretty much sums it up.

[MoGas]

just a question, notheing to worry about, I just asked because I can't remember youre name on the 104th server for example or any other server, only on the forum, but anyway....;)

[topol-m]

I really hope I`ll have more time for multi with DCS: A-10C when it comes out. I`m gathering more info on what exactly has been changed in missiles behavior in 2.0 compared to 1.12b. I`ve seen the change notes but the range specifically remains unclear for me...

 

BTW a side question, probably discussed in some other thread... so in 1.12b there was this pretty annoying thing with the missile coming with let`s say 1000 km/h at a slower flying target and passing some 5-8m (rough estimation) below it, not able to perform a bit higher G turn, the fuse not activating, all this resulting in a waisted missile. Has this been fixed and how? With the improved fuses or with increased missile maneuverability or both?

Edited May 2, 2010 by topol-m

[borchi_2b]

i hope that the r27et will be changed with the patch.

 

we will have a plasmaphysics calculate the r27et data in the next fe days or weeks.

he will get all the data from us that he needs.

 

we will see what will turn out. i assume that it will not be the way it is simulated, cause the r27et has a speed reduction of nearly10g´s after burnout right now in the simulation which is not realistic at all

 

andthe 10g´s are not depending on altitude, it has these 10g´s also at an altitude of 14ooom

[Griffin]

...passing some 5-8m (rough estimation) below it...

Don't know about the G's but the proximity fuses have been adjusted and passing at that distance should cause a detonation.

[GGTharos]

Missile kinematics were changed, but not a lot - mostly they are affected by two factors, one being some sort of change in the atmospheric modeling for supersonic flight (I think) and the other being the limited missile lifetimes. Maneuverability is not changed.

 

In general, R-27R/AIM-7<AIM-120B/R-77<AIM-120C<R-27ER. I can't give you exact ranges. In some cases, some missiles may show same or similar LA distance, but one missile will arrive sooner than the other and usually with more energy (this in general is true of AIM-120C and R-27ER ... the ER will arrive faster than the 120C).

The most serious changes are to the fuzes (all fuzes are now longer, thus increasing all missile Pk's) and chaff resistance means you can be more confident that your missile will guide to its target.

 

BTW a side question, probably discussed in some other thread... so in 1.12b there was this pretty annoying thing with the missile coming with let`s say 1000 km/h at a slower flying target and passing some 5-8m (rough estimation) below it, not able to perform a bit higher G turn, the fuse not activating, all this resulting in a waisted missile. Has this been fixed and how? With the improved fuses or with increased missile maneuverability or both?

[topol-m]

^^^ It seems there really is a complex of changes that I guess affect missile`s effectiveness in a number of ways. I hope the mentioned missile behavior is gone for good.

[combatace]

Missile kinematics were changed, but not a lot - mostly they are affected by two factors, one being some sort of change in the atmospheric modeling for supersonic flight (I think) and the other being the limited missile lifetimes. Maneuverability is not changed.

 

In general, R-27R/AIM-7<AIM-120B/R-77<AIM-120C<R-27ER. I can't give you exact ranges. In some cases, some missiles may show same or similar LA distance, but one missile will arrive sooner than the other and usually with more energy (this in general is true of AIM-120C and R-27ER ... the ER will arrive faster than the 120C).

The most serious changes are to the fuzes (all fuzes are now longer, thus increasing all missile Pk's) and chaff resistance means you can be more confident that your missile will guide to its target.

 

R-27ER is not as maneuverable as AIM-120C as set in game. Nr_max of R-27ER is 18 where as that of Aim-120C is 22, this factor decides missile's target tracking capability. If target is moving more than these values for the particular missile than it will cease to track.

Edited May 3, 2010 by combatace

[EtherealN]

GG was talking about range and time-to-interception.

[RvEYoda]

R-27ER is not as maneuverable as AIM-120C as set in game. Nr_max of R-27ER is 18 where as that of Aim-120C is 22, this factor decides missile's target tracking capability. If target is moving more than these values for the particular missile than it will cease to track.

 

I believe this is actually a limit for how much the missile can pull, not how much the

target can pull before the missile loses it.

 

If you make some defensive tests you will see that both R-27 and 120 are basically

equivalent in terms of how much they can maneuver with the current simplified missile flight model.

The aim-120 has a better proximity fuse however, which will cause it to be deadlier against

purely maneuvering targets if both missiles are flying at high speeds (not considering other seeker issues here).

Edited May 3, 2010 by =RvE=Yoda

[combatace]

Yup that is maximum acceleration at turn of the missile. But if it is more in Aim-120 and less in R-27ER than I guess I will not be able to track a fast moving target as the the missile itself will not have that much turn capability and will loose the track to target.

[GGTharos]

It has plenty of turn capability, don't worry about that.

[combatace]

Of-course it(R-27ER) has plenty of turn capability, no doubt about that. But, it is still less than Aim-120C. Now that is right or wrong I'm not going to talk about that.

[GGTharos]

Newer missile being more capable than old missile sounds right. ;)

[combatace]

Ya thats also true but what I said is not wrong too. See I don't know in real how much maneuverable both missiles are, but according to set parameters in the SIM Aim-120C has to perform better than R-27ER.

[GGTharos]

The R-27 appears to have an ~40g airframe, the AIM-120 a ~50-60g airframe.

 

The sim doesn't model the physics well enough to truly make this distinction well, but it's alright for now. New physics engine for the missiles will come in the future.

[topol-m]

I`ve done some tests and here are the range numbers for AIM-120C, AIM-120B, R-27ER, R-27ET, R-77 with the following standard conditions: head on flying, both player and target at altitude of 5000m, player speed approx. 700 km/h, target speed 1000 km/h.

 

Launch autorization at:

AIM-120C - 23 nm (42.6 km)

AIM-120B - 20 nm (37 km)

R-27ER - 46 km

R-27ET - 6 km*

R-77 - 40 km

 

* Max range shown under the mentioned conditions was 38 km (the target locked with radar and R-27ET chosen), but missile lock and launch authorization at 6km. Is it possible to override the launch authorization and launch it earlier like it was possible in FC 1.12b and if yes will the missile track the target and up to what ranges over those 6 km?

 

Edit: corrected according to Yoda`s hint ;)

Edited May 5, 2010 by topol-m

[borchi_2b]

forget about the r27et, it is tweaked, so the weapon cpu showsabout the right ranges, but the missile does not perform like that.

after burnout it reduces with about 10g, about 200km/h per second, which is not like the real missile would behave

[GGTharos]

You can override it, but it will not track. I suggest trying it against an afterburning target, and against a tail-on target.

 

Is it possible to override the launch authorization and launch it earlier like it was possible in FC 1.12b and if yes will the missile track the target and up to what ranges over those 6 km?