Flight Dynamics in FC 2

[EtherealN]

Yeah, they're just telling you what most (maybe all) of the public dedicated servers are enforcing.

 

The problem with padlocking is that the computer does the looking for you: your own skill in making out and keeping sight of a target against varying backgrounds becomes irrelevant, and in some cases it also allows you to "see" a bandit at ranges where you simply shouldn't. Getting used to this means you stay handicapped when you move to a public server that doesn't allow padlocking, since you won't be trained in spotting.

 

It is also dangerous in the sense that it will cause you to easily get target-fixated: if there's one bandit, there very likely is two (at least IRL, and often on servers as well), but if you padlock on one you aren't getting into the habit of keeping an eye both on your own aircraft as well as looking for other bandits, sam launches etcetera.

Edited June 24, 2010 by EtherealN

[GGTharos]

Yeah, and you can do the same with the hat switch or TIR. What's the problem?

 

I'm sorry, but 'no padlock' has been in since LO came to be, at least in online events.

 

You guys make it sound like it's against the rules to use external views, padlock, etc. online. External views I can understand. but padlock seems a bit much. I mean with FC 2 you now have servers that allow you to join a game easier than before. So what are the rules for online should I ask? You kinda make me not want to get FC 2 since there are so many restrictions.

 

Some people may never be able to get TIR

 

Watch these 2 videos and you'll see it isn't called padlock but the pilots never lose sight of the target, which essentially is padlock.

 

 

[GGTharos]

Don't they? Cannot they i.e. check parts of plane you cannot see, for, i.e. damage?

Cannot they i.e. tell if the sams smoke trail is heading for you?

 

No, they certainly do not. It's one thing for someone to tell you something, and another for you to see it. Wingman issues are not padlock/external view issues.

 

Depends what you see as realistic. For me, it's the result. If I can use the external view for checking my plane just because my wingman is limited by what A.I. can do, then I will use it. If I use padlock after I've visally identified enemy, then its unrealistic? Aren't you able to 'padlock' the target IRL with your neck and eyes?

 

If you're talking about AI wingmen, I honestly don't care what you do or want - I don't meddle in your single-play. ;)

Online you get human wingmen. Enough said.

And no, padlock is not realistic - I'm sorry but padlock will keep 'sight' where you'd lose it due to aircraft camouflage, distance, or otherwise.

 

All of these flaws dissapear in MP. Also, all of other limitations are shared in MP and a human opponent is not a 100% all perceiving machine the AI is in BFM.

 

Ofc, if I use the external view to check enemies, then its unrealistic and in some way cheating. ;)

 

 

They are disabled by server ;)

 

Right.

[Boberro]

Some people may never be able to get TIR

 

Create your own TIR by making FreeTrack. It works good and you don't have to pay monopolist NP.

[asparagin]

Create your own TIR by making FreeTrack. It works good and you don't have to pay monopolist NP.

 

I made one myself, using IR lamps, but I have to say it didn't run so well as track IR, I think mostly because you need a camera with about 100 fps. But still It was fun to build.

[Boberro]

It won't be as same as TIR. However for almost free you get something which is good "brother" of TIR. At least for me 30 FPS with interpolate option up to 120 is good IMHO for that price ^^. I don't need NP ;]

[shackman]

Well to be truthful I already have Track IR, it's just I got it for FSX and whenever I try to use it the view spins around too much. So I shelved it.

 

So if someone could coach me into getting the settings adjusted correctly then I'd be in shape. i could just never get the speed or movement to stay at a steady and readable rate. Are there any files someone could send me?

Edited June 24, 2010 by shackman

[EtherealN]

I do fine with the standard "smooth" setting, using the standard reflector clip mounted on a baseball cap. Which TrackIR unit are you using?

 

Also, make sure to run the newest version of the software (click "check for software updates") and get game updates as well (click "check for game updates") within your TrackIR software suite. I use the TrackIR 5 suite with my TrackIR4 Pro.

[Udat]

Hey shackman what lo version are you flying? I've been inactive for a while in lo, and could do with getting rid of some rust before getting into FC 2.0 for real. I have some experience with both fighters and strikers (very limited with strikers though,) and giving you some informal, relaxed 1 vs 1 bvr training might be what I need to get back in the game. Interested?

[Fahhh]

Shackman, it may be very hard at first to try and fly with externals and padlock disabled if you're used to them. But as others said, if you really wanna get better and fly in a more realistic manner, do read the book, and maybe take Udat's suggestion and give a try at BVR/CAC against a willing and helpful fellow pilot. He's a good pilot, and will guide you in the right direction. Whenever you get FC2, I'll also be glad to fly with you and help with any problems and/or questions you may have. You see we are not such a huge community, but if you want and ask for help and guidance, you will surely receive them :)

[shackman]

Well I just tried using Track IR and that just makes me really dizzy. So I'm just gonna stick with the hat switch and mouse. I may be acting or sounding like an idiot in doing this.

 

I'm sure with experience, as I already have, I'll master the hat switch in a way to use very well.

[GGTharos]

Get used to the TIR ... it takes a little while but you'll get used to it. Just make sure it's at the right distance from you, and you don't have any light sources causing it to do strange things.

[shackman]

Get used to the TIR ... it takes a little while but you'll get used to it. Just make sure it's at the right distance from you, and you don't have any light sources causing it to do strange things.

I think i'll pass on it. I know that I can find a way around it though,such as the mouse.

[GGTharos]

No, don't pass on it. Spend the couple hours needed to learn to control it. You didn't spend $200 to have it rot on a shelf - it's no different than the time you're planning to put into BFM.

[shackman]

To be honest i prefer the hat on top of the TIR. It moves more smoothly.

And you are entitled to your opinion GGTharos, but I agree with you to not waste it.

 

But the point of the game is to enjoy not go by the book.And I do believe that I'll soon master the hat switch and be able to employ it in a dogfight well. It'll just take practice.Practice Practice Practice.

 

no offense. :)

Edited June 25, 2010 by shackman

[SFJackBauer]

Listen to GGTharos experience here buddy. TrackIR can be smooth as silk if you just use the default curves it comes with. Remember it multiplies your head movement, so in the beginning you have to learn it. If you dont like, you can easily set smoother curves within the TIR software.

 

You are dismissing upfront one piece of hardware that has potentially an enormous impact on your experience. Think about it. You can learn to use the hat, but you'll be always one step behind the full capabilities of hardware you already own. So many people would like to have TIR and can't because its expensive for them...

 

Its like when I started playing racing sims with a wheel... I wanted to kick and throw the wheel and pedals at the wall! But I knew there was no step back, or you go and learn it, or you will always be those precious seconds behind.

Edited June 25, 2010 by SFJackBauer

[nomdeplume]

I found the trick to getting comfortable with TIR is to learn to think of it like "a mouse strapped to your head" rather than "it turns your real-life head movements into in-game head movements". It's now very 'natural' for me and I don't like playing any first-person game that doesn't support it, as not being able to look around by moving my head-mouse feels very constrictive.

 

Of course, you might be susceptible to a kind of motion sickness that I'm not, and as good as head-tracking is, it's not good enough to warrant making yourself physically unwell for. :)

 

/// edit ///

 

If you play SP like me, then using the padlock views might be helpful as I think you can command your AI wingmen to 'attack your target' if you have it padlocked. Might not be such an issue in BVR fights since you can also direct them to attack the target you have locked on radar, but for my A-10ing it does limit the wingman usefulness a bit. That said, I don't know what the padlock keys are so I haven't tested if they can actually be used to direct AI wingmen.

Edited June 25, 2010 by nomdeplume

[slug88]

So I'm just gonna stick with the hat switch and mouse. I may be acting or sounding like an idiot in doing this.

 

Sorry man, but this :P:).

[shackman]

Sorry man, but this :P:).

Haha :DI knew that was coming slug.

[bengo]

I have to support the guys that are urging you to do use the TIR. Spend some time with it, and learn to use and understand it. So many people can use it, so it must work, and it brings very much realism into your flying. Not to mention, that it brings you those very valuable seconds that decide between virtual life and death. I'd like to see you do a scissors-fight with your hat. TIR will give you that instinctif feel when looking to the sides, back and up. And your fingers are free to do the more important stuff on your stick and throttle.

If your screen is not rock-steady and flips about, that means that some IR-lightsource behind you gets into the view of the TIR-camera and messes the calculations up. Or, it may mean that the camera is not always picking up all of your dots, and therefore can't calculate your head-position. Please check if these conditions are what is bothering you, by looking at the picture of what the TIR actually sees. This is embedded in the TIR-software, but depends on what version you have installed. What version of TIR, TIR-software and clip (single reflective dot, 3-dot-clip, Trackclip-Pro) are you running anyways ?

 

Oh, and on the outside-view subject : real pilots usually do all their flying inside their cockpit. :smilewink:

[asparagin]

What TIR software version do you use shackman? I can send you eventually my TIR profile.

[shackman]

I have to support the guys that are urging you to do use the TIR. Spend some time with it, and learn to use and understand it. So many people can use it, so it must work, and it brings very much realism into your flying. Not to mention, that it brings you those very valuable seconds that decide between virtual life and death. I'd like to see you do a scissors-fight with your hat. TIR will give you that instinctif feel when looking to the sides, back and up. And your fingers are free to do the more important stuff on your stick and throttle.

If your screen is not rock-steady and flips about, that means that some IR-lightsource behind you gets into the view of the TIR-camera and messes the calculations up. Or, it may mean that the camera is not always picking up all of your dots, and therefore can't calculate your head-position. Please check if these conditions are what is bothering you, by looking at the picture of what the TIR actually sees. This is embedded in the TIR-software, but depends on what version you have installed. What version of TIR, TIR-software and clip (single reflective dot, 3-dot-clip, Trackclip-Pro) are you running anyways ?

 

Oh, and on the outside-view subject : real pilots usually do all their flying inside their cockpit. :smilewink:

 

Well I would like to try to use it, but the version of LO that I have now 1.0 won't recognize it. So i'll have to wait for FC 2, and then try it there. Cause I'm not going to test it out on FSX, AGAIN:doh:.

 

And the 1 problem is the monitor is big in the back that when I set the sensor up on the stand it faces down, and doesn't register the Track IR clip. IF you could think of a better way to hold the camera up then that'd help. Facing down doesn't.:helpsmilie:

 

I'm using TIR 5, but the main problem is the camera

Edited June 25, 2010 by shackman

[asparagin]

And the 1 problem is the monitor is big in the back that when I set the sensor up on the stand it faces down, and doesn't register the Track IR clip. IF you could think of a better way to hold the camera up then that'd help. Facing down doesn't.:helpsmilie:

 

ohh.. pff I'm sure you can figure something out..duct tape or whatever

[bengo]

Well I would like to try to use it, but the version of LO that I have now 1.0 won't recognize it. So i'll have to wait for FC 2, and then try it there. Cause I'm not going to test it out on FSX, AGAIN:doh:.

 

And the 1 problem is the monitor is big in the back that when I set the sensor up on the stand it faces down, and doesn't register the Track IR clip. IF you could think of a better way to hold the camera up then that'd help. Facing down doesn't.:helpsmilie:

 

I'm using TIR 5, but the main problem is the camera

 

You are wrong : LO 1.0 will work with TIR5.

There are known problems with LO1.0 that after you've been in your LO-options, TIR no longer connects to LO. You'll need to erase 2 files.

If Track Ir is not functioning. Delete 2 TrackIR Files. One in the "Input Folder, The other in "Config" folder. Then start your sim. It should be fine now.

On the camera issue : what type of monitor are you using : CRT or flat ?

My camera faces down also. Just make sure you're not sitting to close to the camera, and point it so that it captures clip. The camera comes equiped with a nice support that fits either type of screen really, even on a laptop.

 

[Bvoiash]

Another support from me that you give TrackIR at least another try shackman :thumbup:. And since you have TrackIR 5 why don't you download the latest driver and software for it if you haven't already got them before giving it another go.

 

Like what bengo have mentioned make sure that you go to Camera View after you set it up to see whether it sees another unwanted ir spot. If it does increase the Light Filter Threshold until it disappears. If it's still there after you increase the threshold to the maximum then I suggest that you use something to block the unwanted ir spot from being seen by the camera.

 

If you are dizzy when using it then maybe for now you should adjust the sensitivity so that your view in the game does not move too fast for your liking when you move you head around and also probably start trying to get used to it when no enemy is around so that you don't have to look around quickly in the game. And then you can continue on from there (just take your time when learning to get used to it).

Edited June 27, 2010 by Bvoiash