Eliminating taxiway takeoff

[HiJack]

I can’t remember I’ve seen this done in any mission or any explanation on how to do this in any forum. On my new mission “Operation Whiplash” I’m trying out proper airport procedures for takeoff. This can be done simply with 2 triggers pr. Flight. My hope is that this will eliminate taxiway takeoffs. On large servers with a lot of players the triggers may have an impact; I can’t test it. I wish there were a trigger that just deactivated the flight like the one for single player but that doesn’t seem to work so the unit is exploded. This will of course create some mess but the player loses a flight and will definitely be observed by other players and of course logged for later ban. A coalition message is posted to tell that there has been a violation of the airfield procedures. I also wish there were a variable that displayed the players nick in the message. On servers with many flights the trigger creation will take some time but with the excellent Mission Editor MOD you be done in a sec with the DUPLICATE button!

 

This can be tested on my new mission running on “HiJack” server; you find it in the serverlist. Proper airfield procedures are explained in the mission briefing. And I’ll accept some explosions for a couple of days :music_whistling:

 

Here are my triggers for the takeoff and action for violation of the procedures:

 

 

 

UPDATE for airfield attack:

 

 

I’ve also tried to reset the FLAG when the player is airborn to prevent the player from taxiway takeoff next time but this creates too many triggers. I also ran in to problems with that because the player could land in the TAKEOFF zone and reactivated the FLAG. So for now the 2 triggers is the best solution with least mission production impact I think. It will solve all initial takeoffs anyway.

 

Fair play :smilewink:

 

(Jack)

Edited July 27, 2010 by HiJack

[GGTharos]

Oh, gosh, let's see what's wrong with all this. How about kicking them after they land/are shot down/disconnect, or ban them for a few minutes like proper administrative punishment would require? ;)

 

But then, how do you account for the necessity of taxiway takeoffs against bombed out runways or in cases when there are enemy aircraft in proximity to the airbase? In this case, taxiway takeoffs MAY be required.

 

Either way, good effort in tackling this particular problem, I just think it would be done a little better. ;)

[HiJack]

This is not a complete answer to the problem. Yes I see the problem if the airfield is bombed out. When an airfield is attacked does the aircrafts then takeoff from taxiway IRL?

[GGTharos]

As far as I know, yes, there are reasons for permitting taxiway takeoffs. It is not normal, it is usually some form of emergency, as those mentioned.

 

In the example of runway being bombed, the reason is obvious.

In the case of aircraft being nearby, if you consider an enemy aircraft hitting 30nm from the moment you begin to taxi, he can close at 600kt (to make math easy), ie. 10nm/min.

 

You need 2 min to complete your takeoff incuding taxi, so the bandit will be on top of you by the time you are at fighting speed, probably with altitude and positional advantage. You need to cut a minute off of your takeoff in this case, to give you a better fighting chance.

[HiJack]

OK I see that. Would you eaven consider putting an aircraft on an airfield not properly covered with SAM's theese days?

 

I guess it's not easy to put this feature in the code either ;)

 

(HJ)

[GGTharos]

It is a question of whether I must, not whether I have the choice to do so ;)

 

As you know SAMs are generally easy to defeat in FC2 still. But anyway, yes you are right, programming this stuff, not easy :)

[HiJack]

Yes I see I may have to change this back to default but will leave it on to the next update of my mission ;) Thanks for the input Tharos :D

[GGTharos]

No problem ... it is a good effort and if you succeed I think it would be a great addition to the game :)

[Case]

Good initiative HiJack!

 

I played a bit with this myself. Here are some suggestions:

• use switched conditions for your triggers, as this will allow players to return to an airbase to rearm and refuel
  
• instead of testing on speed, place a zone around the airfield, and once the player leaves that with a false flag indicating a violation, explode him. This way the debris will not accumulate on the airfield if he climbs steeply.
  

 

Also note that players can still take off from the taxiways when they return, or land on taxiways, but this isn't as big a problem as the take-offs on spawning in.

 

In order to allow other players see who violated the rules, you can have your message display the players tail number, which is visible in the player pool.

 

But then, how do you account for the necessity of taxiway takeoffs against bombed out runways or in cases when there are enemy aircraft in proximity to the airbase? In this case, taxiway takeoffs MAY be required.

If the mission is designed properly then bombed out runways or proximity of enemy aircraft will occur far less often than players taking off from taxiways. Edited July 26, 2010 by Case

[HiJack]

Nice suggestions Case! The tailnumber will be implemented :D I will test some more on the other issues.

 

Right now I'm enjoying the A-10 videos shared in some other thread in here :)

 

(HJ)

[KungFuCharlie]

Yes, very good initiative on this one!

 

I am not very familiar with the rule system just yet so some of my suggestions may not be possible, but here they are:

 

1. Is there a way to put a trigger on the runway so that when a bomb hits it, a flag gets set? Then you can test against that flag as well in determining if they made an illegal take off.

 

2. Instead of exploding them, can you trigger a left or right engine fire along with a hydraulics failure? The idea would be to make them completely useless in a fight but still allow them to RTB without losing an aircraft. Once they realize the consequences then I doubt they would do it again.

[GGTharos]

You can detect if a runway is 'destroyed', actually, IIRC. I might be wrong.

 

The trigger should not cause damage - you do not shoot your own aircraft for procedural violations.

 

It should trigger a lecture when they land again, and a temporary ban NEXT TIME THEY LOG IN (to catch those who'd fly a single sortie for the day and leave ;) )

[KungFuCharlie]

The trigger should not cause damage - you do not shoot your own aircraft for procedural violations.

 

True but we do take some liberties in our simulations to quickly fix problems. Besides, who said anything about shooting? It was just a coincidence that everything started to fail right after the warning message... :smilewink:

[combatace]

I used to fly on 104th sqaudron in FC1.12 and I very clearly remember that I was not able to go over 70Kmph on taxiways. Whenever I reached above 70Kmph my engines would go in idle position. I don't know whether that was coded on some airfield or was designed by the mission producer.

[Case]

1. Is there a way to put a trigger on the runway so that when a bomb hits it, a flag gets set? Then you can test against that flag as well in determining if they made an illegal take off.

No, unfortunately no such trigger exists.

 

2. Instead of exploding them, can you trigger a left or right engine fire along with a hydraulics failure? The idea would be to make them completely useless in a fight but still allow them to RTB without losing an aircraft. Once they realize the consequences then I doubt they would do it again.

It would be great if we could do this, but unfortunately we can't.

 

 

You can detect if a runway is 'destroyed', actually, IIRC. I might be wrong.

No, unfortunately not. I think you remember the trigger action when an airbase changes coalition.

 

It should trigger a lecture when they land again, and a temporary ban NEXT TIME THEY LOG IN (to catch those who'd fly a single sortie for the day and leave ;) )

FC2/DCS doesn't have such trigger actions as of yet. The only way to log if a player took off from a taxi way is to explode him when he does so, as the logs will record him crashing.

 

I used to fly on 104th sqaudron in FC1.12 and I very clearly remember that I was not able to go over 70Kmph on taxiways. Whenever I reached above 70Kmph my engines would go in idle position. I don't know whether that was coded on some airfield or was designed by the mission producer.

This was due to Yoda's LRM script, which was enforced on all clients when they loaded in. It essentially took over the players controls and braked if he went too fast. Unfortunately in FC2/DCS there is not an option to force such scripts onto players without them having to make a concious decision to download the script and install it.

[HiJack]

Well, detecting that an airfield is attacked or damaged must be easy if you create a set of SAM's, AAA's and some other equipment around the airfield. You can then easely implement "if damaged" on the group and then set the FLAG to TRUE for all aircrafts on that base and by that disable the violation rule. I think this can be done! :D

 

(HJ)

[KungFuCharlie]

Well, detecting that an airfield is attacked or damaged must be easy if you create a set of SAM's, AAA's and some other equipment around the airfield. You can then easely implement "if damaged" on the group and then set the FLAG to TRUE for all aircrafts on that base and by that disable the violation rule. I think this can be done! :D(HJ)

 

It would work but it would be a hack and not fit into the true purpose of the mod.

 

Is there no way to use the targeting indicator to do this? I'd like to play around with the idea but I leave for Vegas tomorrow morning (rough, I know :D) and won't be able to play with the editor until later next week.

[HiJack]

Well if ED implement a damage detektor on the airstrip the problem would be solved!

 

(HJ)

[Bearitall]

" detektor " (HJ)

 

Correction>>>> " Detector ":thumbup:

[Case]

Correction>>>> " Detector ":thumbup:

Very constructive to the discussion.

[HiJack]

Correction>>>> " Detector ":thumbup:

Yea, well, pardon my French :D

 

I've tested the airfield procedures with unit’s dead and setting the FLAG for all the aircrafts at the same time works fine. You can set the trigger to any object that reports damage or dead. I would really wish for the possibility of “OR” conditions in the mission editor; I know it’s possible to set it in the mission file but that is too much manual editing every time you change the mission.

 

This will definitely make it possible to have some required procedures from all players.

Regarding setting FAILURES on the aircraft; I also tested that first but did not like the result. It looks like the FAILURE is not immediately in multiplayer so I thought it gave no control over the triggers. I will say that the solution to this is to implement the “DEACTIVATE UNIT” on multiplayer the same way it is in singleplayer. Any mission planner can of course change the actions as he likes.

 

And, it’s not a MOD but normal use of the standard mission editor.

 

(HJ)

[VTJS17_Fire]

Correction>>>> " Detector ":thumbup:

 

For german language, "Detektor" is correct. :D Sorry for OT. :music_whistling:

 

 

kind regards,

fire

[HiJack]

I will not implement the damage to airfield defense on my current mission because we have total air control :cheer3nc: so just follow the proceedings :bounce:

[Case]

I will say that the solution to this is to implement the “DEACTIVATE UNIT” on multiplayer the same way it is in singleplayer.

Yes, it is unfortunate the server cannot deactivate client units...

[Moa]

Is the kick action scriptable? When a notification is posted that a player did a taxiway takeoff it'd be nice if a script kicked the player. ServMan might have clues on how to do this.