Su-27 radar

[combatace]

Just 2 questions for ED team,

 

1.) Will there be any fix for Su-27 radar?

The problem is that when enemy turns 180 degrees the radar is over ridden by OLS and there is nothing to guide R-27ER further. OLS was built to overlay radar for better target lock and not to over-ride it.

 

2.) Will the OLS be fixed?

 

The problem is that the laser range finder of coupled with OLS has the range of only 3Km and it shows range and speed of targets even at 40Km.

 

P.S. I don't want any fuzz about it, I just want to know the answers.

[RIPTIDE]

1) Fix? Its unlikely they'll be anymore patches. That's a guess.

 

Depends on range when enemy turns 180. You'll have a hard time getting the bandit in rear aspect at 30-40 kms on radar.

 

2) Over 25km your radar gets the speed, range ect even only in EOS mode.

 

You'll have to agree that there are lots of these little things that are automatic in the game but would be far more controllable IRL.

[asparagin]

I believe the reason that the radar looses track is due to beaming before going to 180 degree. Or what do you mean?

[combatace]

1) Fix? Its unlikely they'll be anymore patches. That's a guess.

 

Depends on range when enemy turns 180. You'll have a hard time getting the bandit in rear aspect at 30-40 kms on radar.

 

why not with med frequencies.I should not lose lock in interleave mode.

Its not beaming, if the bandit executes split-S than too this happens. If he turns at the speed of 1200Kmph making a big curve this happens. It happens all the time and not every body is so good at beaming.

 

2) Over 25km your radar gets the speed, range ect even only in EOS mode.

 

 

 

 

 

And for OLS how will it measure speed just by getting IR-radiation from something. The only way to measure speed and distance what I know is emit a wave than receive it back. You already know the speed of your wave emitted and now you know the time it took to reach you after reflecting. So, you have time and speed so you can get distance. For measuring speed, you emit a second pulse and wait for it, and when it is reflected back you again get some distance. Now you have two different distances at two different instances of time and now the basic formula of speed come in picture v=(d2-d1)/(t2-t1). What my point is that the laser in the OLS of Su-27 is only so much powerful that the radiation it emits will reflect and come back only for distance <3Km, for more than that distance the radiation will decay in the due to dispersion.

 

 

You'll have to agree that there are lots of these little things that are automatic in the game but would be far more controllable IRL.

 

Ya I know but I usually waste all my missiles on a fleeing bandit 20Km away. I fear if I don't chase him he will turn back and engage me and than if that is F-15 carrying Aim-120C I will have very little chance of escaping the missiles.

 

 

P.S. I want some word from ED, can Wags be there?

Edited September 11, 2010 by combatace

[RIPTIDE]

why not with med frequencies.I should not lose lock in interleave mode.

Its not beaming, if the bandit executes split-S than too this happens. If he turns at the speed of 1200Kmph making a big curve this happens. It happens all the time and not every body is so good at beaming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for OLS how will it measure speed just by getting IR-radiation from something. The only way to measure speed and distance what I know is emit a wave than receive it back. You already know the speed of your wave emitted and now you know the time it took to reach you after reflecting. So, you have time and speed so you can get distance. For measuring speed, you emit a second pulse and wait for it, and when it is reflected back you again get some distance. Now you have two different distances at two different instances of time and now the basic formula of speed come in picture v=(d2-d1)/(t2-t1). What my point is that the laser in the OLS of Su-27 is only so much powerful that the radiation it emits will reflect and come back only for distance <3Km, for more than that distance the radiation will decay in the due to dispersion.

 

 

 

 

Ya I know but I usually waste all my missiles on a fleeing bandit 20Km away. I fear if I don't chase him he will turn back and engage me and than if that is F-15 carrying Aim-120C I will have very little chance of escaping the missiles.

 

 

P.S. I want some word from ED, can Wags be there?

Again.. it depends on range... Med PRF in rear aspect is 40km detection for a fighter size. ILV mode is 30km detection. Bear in mind that these are detection ranges.. lock ranges will be a bit less again. BTW this will be same for F-15 and worse for MiG. So yes... you can very well loose radar lock... big change from FC 1 as I remember it.

 

As for the OLS... you say something about the laser not working more than 3km? Not so sure about that. Do you have source? IN the implementation in FC2.0 the theory is the laser works out to 25km and after that the radar does ranging...within EOS mode.

[asparagin]

Its not beaming, if the bandit executes split-S than too this happens.

 

When you split s you also beam when you are orthogonal to the tracking radar. Beaming is not restricted to a horizontal aspect situation.

[mvsgas]

Combatance,

How do you know the maximum range the OLS can detect targets?

Is there some place we can read more on this systems?

I'm looking on how does it al work together.

[GGTharos]

why not with med frequencies.I should not lose lock in interleave mode.

 

Sorry to say you are not going to get a better implementation in FC2 AFAIK. And RIPTIDE is correct, at/beyond 40km in a tailchase, EOS is the only thing that will pick up your target.

MPRF is pretty short-ranged.

 

Its not beaming, if the bandit executes split-S than too this happens. If he turns at the speed of 1200Kmph making a big curve this happens. It happens all the time and not every body is so good at beaming.

 

Yes it is, if for a moment. Implementation of this such as it is in the game has EOS tracking the bandit instead now, where the radar should have attempted a mini-raster, assuming he's within MPRF range and assuming the radar would even permit you to use MPRF in STT (or did so automatically)

 

 

And for OLS how will it measure speed just by getting IR-radiation from something. The only way to measure speed and distance what I know is emit a wave than receive it back. You already know the speed of your wave emitted and now you know the time it took to reach you after reflecting. So, you have time and speed so you can get distance. For measuring speed, you emit a second pulse and wait for it, and when it is reflected back you again get some distance. Now you have two different distances at two different instances of time and now the basic formula of speed come in picture v=(d2-d1)/(t2-t1). What my point is that the laser in the OLS of Su-27 is only so much powerful that the radiation it emits will reflect and come back only for distance <3Km, for more than that distance the radiation will decay in the due to dispersion.

 

Actually according to the manual it is about 8km. Why are you saying things that aren't true?

 

Ya I know but I usually waste all my missiles on a fleeing bandit 20Km away. I fear if I don't chase him he will turn back and engage me and than if that is F-15 carrying Aim-120C I will have very little chance of escaping the missiles.

 

So why are you chasing him? Launch your missiles and stay slower, let him open the range and then turn around and escape.

 

P.S. I want some word from ED, can Wags be there?

 

He's not going to tell much that's different, just a guess on my part.

[combatace]

Sorry to say you are not going to get a better implementation in FC2 AFAIK. And RIPTIDE is correct, at/beyond 40km in a tailchase, EOS is the only thing that will pick up your target.

MPRF is pretty short-ranged.

 

 

 

Yes it is, if for a moment. Implementation of this such as it is in the game has EOS tracking the bandit instead now, where the radar should have attempted a mini-raster, assuming he's within MPRF range and assuming the radar would even permit you to use MPRF in STT (or did so automatically)

 

 

 

 

Actually according to the manual it is about 8km. Why are you saying things that aren't true?

 

 

 

So why are you chasing him? Launch your missiles and stay slower, let him open the range and then turn around and escape.

 

 

 

He's not going to tell much that's different, just a guess on my part.

 

 

Manual says that to one will get better range on tail on in MPRF but will reduce the detection range of head on planes. So it should have higher range because that is when the highest radar signature of the plane is exposed. As high frequencies increases head-on range same medium frequencies increases tail-on range.

 

May be I'm wrong on 3Km and it is 8Km but than too it does not explain anything about showing both speed and distance at 25Km.

 

Did escape a lot of times, even tried to launch my ER at 30Km range but I lose lock. I find most people go 180 after getting fired upon and than keep on running even if you chase or not because I'm on OLS even if I chase no chance of knowing that for him. One day I tried to disengage one and engage other bandit I just wasted 4ERs because all of then turned 180 and I lost the lock and I again say not everyone is good at beaming. Some guy getting shot 10 times without a kill won't have that much skill to beam a radar. Sorry, I can't accept beaming is the reason.

[RIPTIDE]

Manual says that to one will get better range on tail on in MPRF but will reduce the detection range of head on planes. So it should have higher range because that is when the highest radar signature of the plane is exposed. As high frequencies increases head-on range same medium frequencies increases tail-on range.

 

And here's the thing.... medium PRF on tail chase is till ~40kms detection where as Hi PRF head-on is ~100km detection. Big difference. Tail chases are always far shorter range for detection.

[nscode]

May be I'm wrong on 3Km and it is 8Km but than too it does not explain anything about showing both speed and distance at 25Km.

 

As people have replied more than once, beyond 8km, RADAR is used for measuring distance, even if you are in OLS - only mode. They are integrated sensors. It does so in short pulses every now and then, as to try and avoid detection. IRL, you could avoid this by turning the radar of comletly, or by flying in a MiG-29UB, that doesn't have the radar at all ;)

 

By contrast, the MiG-23's OLS doesn't have a laser ranger at all, and it uses radar pulses for ranging all the way.

[Boberro]

FC lacks much especially in avionics in many aspects so don't expect very realistic behaviour especially good model of radars.