Mjoy16 or Leo Bodnar?

[Sokol1_br]

...but I don't see a problem wiring a diode in series with every switch. I also don't need a GND for every switch since I find it nicer to have only one GND line to every box, than to use two cables for every switch.

I agree with Bridling,

 

To rewire stick/throttle I prefer BU0836A or Bu0836 instead BU0836X.

 

X cost 25% - 80% more to do same thing.

 

Put diodes in buttons is no problem, means make one more solder per button.

 

Other thing is: You have limited space in stick/throttle case - difficult to fit X version inside - and in joystick pole a very small hole. Using X you need two wires for each button.

 

For example: Suncon F-15 typically have 13 buttons in grip/top (HAT count as 4 buttons) without mods like 2 stage trigger or 3 buttons in right side thumb switch (like in real F-15 stick), or red buttons for modes in some versions.

 

So you need pass 26 wires from base to top of grip into a very small and angled hole.

 

With non X version you need pass only 8 wires, 4 for Columns (3, 4, 5 ,6) and 4 for rows (3, 4, 5, 6).

 

Put X version into a external box add another problem: find cable with sufficient internal wires to interface this box with stick and throttle base.

 

For SFS throttle this mean one cable with 45 internal wires between control box and throttle base: 3 for 1 axis + 42 for 21 buttons (switchs/push/HATs) - without count red modes buttons in base or use extra axis.

 

But Cyberkut idea of universal conttroler base is nice.:idea:

 

What you said sounds great but wouldn't wiring the BU0836X to a serial port defeat the purpose of a USB mod?

No, the purpose of put BU0836 (or another USB controller) in old sticks is make these sticks compatible witht USB protocol and use in modern PCS whit last OS versions. Use DB-25, or even DB-37 or DB-50 for interface cables between modules dont change this.

 

:joystick:

 

Sokol1

Edited October 1, 2010 by Sokol1_br

[sweinhart3]

Brydling,

 

Thanks for the much needed input! I just read up a bit on diodes and understand that they're there to restrict current flow in one direction but why is that needed for the switches?

 

Actually Ive been trying to figure that out too. Depending on how it was wired, Ive used resistors before. But the joysticks Ive seen are all prewired with diodes. Im not sure about the reasoning behind it.

[Sokol1_br]

Instead of a true hat switch, it is apparently being handled by the hat actuating some small buttons.

 

I took a look in HAT's from many sticks (CH, Thrustmaster, Saitek, Suncon, MS..) and all use 4 tactile micro swichs (buttons) arranged around a central pole - some under a cross lever (Suncon), but for electrical purposes all work in the same way.

 

Mason PDF for military HAT show similar arrange: 4 switch's around central pole.

 

Sokol1

[Postal2]

Hello everyone, so for me yes I put all on one card.

I just limit the common (neutral (-)) in order to have more than one-half son.

 

Then in terms of the diodes is not necessary with direct key presses (on the map here) because everyone uses the same neutral connection , and may not create or parasitic leakage current ....

 

As I modder there a certain time ago I did not think all the time. Now I can edit it to put DB 15 connectors etc. ... (As I can disconnect it for transportation).

[CyBerkut]

Brydling,

 

Thanks for the much needed input! I just read up a bit on diodes and understand that they're there to restrict current flow in one direction but why is that needed for the switches?

 

CyBerkut,

What you said sounds great but wouldn't wiring the BU0836X to a serial port defeat the purpose of a USB mod?

 

I love the idea of having the controller board outside the stick and it has always been my plan. Take a look at a real F18 or F15 stick and note the box mounted below the grip.

 

Hi Leafer,

 

It wouldn't be connecting to a serial port on the computer. The DB-25 connectors (typically used for parallel port printer connections) are just a commonly available connector with a lot of pins. (You could use whatever type of connectors that your prefer, as long as they have enough pins and can handle enough current / voltage.) In what I described, they would strictly be connecting the controller bases to the Bodnar Box. The Bodnar Box would be using a USB connection to the computer.

 

Also, keep in mind that more than 1 Bodnar Board could be placed in such a box. Someone who has lots of stuff to convert over might want that. Of course, each Bodnar board has it's own USB connection to the computer, but even that could be brought down to one USB cable (running to the computer) by placing a USB hub inside the box with the Bodnar boards. Anyone doing that sould consider using a powered USB hub, since some controllers / devices might bog down a hub that only uses the power from the computer's USB connection.

 

As for the switch diodes on the non X versions, it is because of the switch matrix approach. The use of the matrix allows more switches to use fewer wires, but without diodes limiting the current flow to one direction, you can end up with switch ghosting (aka phantom inputs) when multiple switches are operated simultaneously.

[CyBerkut]

As for the 2 wires per switch issue with the X version of the Bodnar board... You can cut the conductor count down easily. On the Bodnar board, you jumper the return connection for all of the switches on a controller together, and run a single return conductor to the controller. Inside the controller, you jumper the return post for each switch together, and tie them to that single conductor that was brought in from the Bodnar board.

 

20 switches then only need 21 conductors to run between the controller and the Bodnar board, instead of 40 conductors.

[Postal2]

Exactly, I make Same thing for me!

 

I use only 5 ground (-) for all connected neutral. i made a little template for use easily.

The all Moitiers with fewer connectors.

 

Vriament as happy (the only complaint sil pots are old they will play and the center wedge is not well (sight) in which case it will tweak in Fc2.

[Sokol1_br]

Replace pot's with HALL sensor in Suncom sticks.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html#Post3108311

 

Sokol1

[leafer]

I'm staring at the Suncom and all its G.I Joe-plastic glory and had to turn off the light. Ahhh...they don't look too bad when silhouetted against the island moonlight. I can only imagine the horror people felt when that big red lamp, on the joysitck, where a coolie switch should be lit up. :D

 

And you're right, the buttons and hats (or the lack of hat switches) are even more cringe-worthy, but I've anticipated that and has a few hats on order from TM for absurdly reasonable price.

 

My question is is the BU0836A worth the extra cash or will the BU0836 do?

Edited October 13, 2010 by leafer

[leafer]

Replace pot's with HALL sensor in Suncom sticks.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html#Post3108311

 

Sokol1

 

It took me a while to comprehend what he did with that mod but wow, quite simple indeed. I wonder if the spring that comes with the Suncom is stiff enough to handle an extended stick setup I have in mind.

[CyBerkut]

How long of an extension are you contemplating? If you're talking about mounting the base on the floor and extending the stick up to above thigh level when seated... I'd predict that you would need some serious external springing to get desirable results.

 

Of course, some of it comes down to how much resistance you want. With a short extension, you might get by if you want a light touch.

[leafer]

It'll be floor-mounted and you're right. I have thought of a way to beef up the resistance with extra springs to support the extra length. I'd have to gut the base to see if it's possible to install springs below the mechanism. Probably not from the pics I've seen.

[leafer]

The PCBs in the stick and throttle, can I just trash them or are they needed?

 

Sorry about all these questions but I think I may have bitten more than I can chew here.

[CyBerkut]

It'll be floor-mounted and you're right. I have thought of a way to beef up the resistance with extra springs to support the extra length. I'd have to gut the base to see if it's possible to install springs below the mechanism. Probably not from the pics I've seen.

 

If it were me, I'd probably place external springs (or bungie cords) immediately above the base, connecting the low end of the extension shaft to 4 posts/screws in such a way as to minimize exerting any additional downward stress upon the plastic internals of the base unit. [Maybe even have the ever-so-slightest upward pull to counteract the additional weight of the extension shaft]. Then find, or fashion, a boot to cover it all up for a better appearance. [A large-ish stick shift boot would probably do the trick].

[CyBerkut]

The PCBs in the stick and throttle, can I just trash them or are they needed?

 

Sorry about all these questions but I think I may have bitten more than I can chew here.

 

If I remember some pics I've seen ( a long time ago ) correctly, the hat switches / buttons are mounted to those boards. If so, you would need to fashion an alternate mounting method for the switches/hats in order to get rid of the circuit boards. I believe the solution I've seen from others is to keep the boards, but cut the traces on the circuit boards (ie. with an exacto knife) to disconnect the undesired portions of the circuitry. Then, you just solder your wiring to the boards on the switch/hat side of the cuts.

 

Hope that helps!

[leafer]

Huh. I thought in aditiona to providing the USB, the BU0836A allows one to connect the switches, hats and hall sensors directly to it which would mean I don't need the old circuit boards?

 

And you've been of tremendous help.

 

Thanks

[Sokol1_br]

I thought in aditiona to providing the USB, the BU0836A allows one to connect the switches, hats and hall sensors directly to it which would mean I don't need the old circuit boards?

As Cyberkut say, you need old circuit board located in upper grip to support switchs and HATs in your original position. Just erase contact trials in one side.

 

Or if you have skill in make PCS you can make one to replace the original, like this (linked before in this topic):

 

http://www.flightsim.cz/images/forum/00018715.jpg

http://www.flightsim.cz/images/forum/00018788.jpg

 

Another circuits boards in base of joystick or throttle is useless, you can remove this to make room for BU0836.

 

Suncom stick have a limited space in base, to fit BU0836 I use a "slippery shelf" whit BU0836 mounted upright (vertical):

 

 

In picture upper, connections in right side is for axis, and connections

on left side (C labeled connector) is for buttons and HATS.

 

Sokol1

Edited October 16, 2010 by Sokol1_br

[leafer]

Several questions, Sokol1, what's the size of the allen wrench to unscrew those bolts? I'm asking because I took the throttle to several hardware store on this island but no one has the proper size. And what wire gauge you use for this? I'm just wondering if I should use bigger gauge than the ones supplied with the hotas.

 

Thank you very much Sokol1 and Cyberkut.

Edited October 16, 2010 by leafer

[Sokol1_br]

To remove screws in throttle I use 3mm Allen wrench (metric system).

 

If dont find exact one (or find only in imperial system), get one a bit large and grid sides to adjust, sometimes this is the most viable option.

 

These screws in throttle don use much pressure. Allen screws in stick base are just cosmetic.

 

For wires I reuse some gameport cablesm with small wires.

Probable you can use bigger gauge without problems.

 

Sokol1

[leafer]

Geat! I was thinking of using the wires from the gameport cables that came with them. I'll order the BU0836 and hall effect sensors from him as well. This is going to be the sweetest thing when done because I've been flying using keyboard for several years. lol

 

Thanks, Sokol1. :thumbup:

[Sokol1_br]

Tip: Since you plan use one BU0836 to rewire Suncom stick and SFS throttle, remember that you need a cable with lot of internal wires (12 or more) to hook throttle in stick (or vice versa).

 

If you local market (like mine) dont offer option of these cables, save the original gameport cables to do this.

For internal conections wires of (PC) IDE flat cables is good option, or better one these multicolored:

 

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/673/cableh.jpg

 

Sokol1

[leafer]

First obstacle/frustration resolved.

 

It turned out the hardware stores had the proper wrench all along, but the screws that came with my Suncom are all out of spec as you mentioned. I had to file the wrench down to fit them.

 

So far, I've disassembled the sitck from the base, stripped it down to shell and removed the red dome light cover thing. Once the hats from TM arrived, I'll know the proper size and will open the hole in the middle for a hat switch and make a sleeve for another hat to go in place of the red dome.

 

Basically, I'm going for the look of the real F15 stick which is mounted on top of a little box. The BU0836 will go inside this box. It'll be full lenght and floor mounted. I'll post pics when I have something worth posting.

Edited October 17, 2010 by leafer

[CyBerkut]

Excellent! :thumbup: I'm looking forward to what you come up with. :)

[leafer]

Me too. :D

[leafer]

Been four days and Bodnar hasn't replied to my email inquiring whether the BU0836 I ordered works with win7 64bit nor did I receive a confirmation of my order.