MIG-31 not enough power...

[Gupyzer0]

Seems like the MIG-31 is underpowered, it just cant even reach mach 2.0 ... start falling at 15000 meters, cant reach even 20000 meters ... is there any way to solve this or im wrong ???.

 

Pls reply me :thumbup:

[2IAE-CrashBG]

If you are doing it by using a non-flyables mod, just do the climb steadily not quickly. If bots are messing it up, give them more space and set the speed to maximum in the mission editor.

[nscode]

how are these handeled in FC2? isn't it still just a su-27 with different 3d model and loadout?

[RIPTIDE]

Seems like the MIG-31 is underpowered, it just cant even reach mach 2.0 ... start falling at 15000 meters, cant reach even 20000 meters ... is there any way to solve this or im wrong ???.

 

Pls reply me :thumbup:

I was using the EFA mod and I like the Mig-31 in it. A nice steady climb has me hitting 16k+ metric and can approach Mach 3. Takes a while though but is seriously awesome. However if you carry the full load of 4 R-33's PLUS the 2 '40's, this will be difficult. All 6 of these missiles are like cars strapped on to it. lol

[2IAE-CrashBG]

how are these handeled in FC2? isn't it still just a su-27 with different 3d model and loadout?

 

Now every plane uses it's own flight model and when those planes have a human cockpit assigned they still use their own fm.

[HungaroJET]

Now every plane uses it's own flight model and when those planes have a human cockpit assigned they still use their own fm.

 

WRONG !

 

But if i post a corrected FM for MiG-31, MiG-25 or Harrier, then i will be a cheater :smartass:

Of course i have FM for MiG-31/25 (Mach 3+ & 37K ALT), but i can make FM for SR-71 and moreover for X-15 also.

Edited October 8, 2010 by HungaroJET

[Boberro]

Now every plane uses it's own flight model and when those planes have a human cockpit assigned they still use their own fm.

 

Nope. Example Su-17M4 is too fast... (especially acceleration).

You can edit FM files, this is a lot of work.

[Gupyzer0]

I was using the EFA mod and I like the Mig-31 in it. A nice steady climb has me hitting 16k+ metric and can approach Mach 3. Takes a while though but is seriously awesome. However if you carry the full load of 4 R-33's PLUS the 2 '40's, this will be difficult. All 6 of these missiles are like cars strapped on to it. lol

You are right rip ! :doh: i used somewhat an step climb, first 13000 meters, some aceleration and hitted mach 2 ! and later mach 3 !!! and then the sky was mine for few minutes :yes: crossed all the map and came back to krasnodar :D.

 

An yes ! in FC 2 every airplane haves its own flight model, but the su-17 haves a crazy aceleration .

 

Thanks for all your replys !

[vanir]

Su-17 advertised performance in western publication is most often for Su-22 Fitter-F and Fitter-J versions with the R29B series engine which is optimised for low altitude and can't manage much more than about 1.7 Mach at higher ones (this engine is almost identical to MiG-27 engine with two AB settings designed mostly for subsonic low alt operation with heavy ordnance).

 

All Russian Su-17 and some exports use the Lyulka AL21F3 engine which has excellent high altitude performance, in fact so good the Egyptians and other nations used their Su-20 as ad hoc interceptors. It is an excellent engine with three position AB and fully modulated thrust control, so it is much more like a modern fighter engine than the R29BS.

 

Sukhoi claims a max level speed clean of 2.09 Mach for the Fitter-K variants with the AL21 engine. Other sources claim a max level speed of Fitter-C (Su-17M or Su-20) early production models with the AL21 as 2.2 Mach.

Max level speed on the deck is given the same as an F-16.

 

Most notably the acceleration of R29 engine versions should be better at low alt whilst it should be much better at high alt for the AL21F, and its triple-flameholder afterburner.

Considering the normal take off weight of the Su-17M-4 is far less than half that of an Su-24 which uses the same engines, one would expect its acceleration to be very strong.

 

I think the common impression most people have about the Su-17/22 is from the export Su-22 using the R29BS engine. Versions with the AL21F engine are good enough to be used as an improvised interceptor in a small air force.

[vanir]

Max level speed for the Foxbat and Foxhound are at 11500 metres and 13500 metres respectively.

The Foxbat for example can only manage to reach 21000m fully armed in level flight for two minutes before it drops under stall speed. It can't sustain altitudes like 20km with a war load, it has a hard enough time doing it clean and stripped.

Most other fighters run into this problem at 15km or 18km.

 

To get altitude, you trade airspeed. The main reason these two MiGs can go so fast is because it was never about going fast, it's all about reaching altitude. To do that you need to go fast, then you spend that speed climbing high.

 

The Blackbird is an exception. Normal fighters don't act like that.

 

 

to pre-empt a counterpoint, altitude records are set by cheating. You dip and top out an airframe speed then zoom climb. You do it over and over, dip and zoom, until you run out of fuel. A stripped and prepared Foxbat passed 37km altitude doing that, the standing record for an airbreather (in the 50s that would've qualified as spaceflight).

Edited October 10, 2010 by vanir

[Gupyzer0]

to pre-empt a counterpoint, altitude records are set by cheating. You dip and top out an airframe speed then zoom climb. You do it over and over, dip and zoom, until you run out of fuel. A stripped and prepared Foxbat passed 37km altitude doing that, the standing record for an airbreather (in the 50s that would've qualified as spaceflight).

Well i actually made 200 kms without any interruption in the MIG-25RBT after a recon. mission escaping from SAMs and F-15s, i just learned how to :joystick:.

[mikoyan]

Max level speed for the Foxbat and Foxhound are at 11500 metres and 13500 metres respectively.

The Foxbat for example can only manage to reach 21000m fully armed in level flight for two minutes before it drops under stall speed. It can't sustain altitudes like 20km with a war load, it has a hard enough time doing it clean and stripped.

Most other fighters run into this problem at 15km or 18km.

 

To get altitude, you trade airspeed. The main reason these two MiGs can go so fast is because it was never about going fast, it's all about reaching altitude. To do that you need to go fast, then you spend that speed climbing high.

 

The Blackbird is an exception. Normal fighters don't act like that.

 

 

to pre-empt a counterpoint, altitude records are set by cheating. You dip and top out an airframe speed then zoom climb. You do it over and over, dip and zoom, until you run out of fuel. A stripped and prepared Foxbat passed 37km altitude doing that, the standing record for an airbreather (in the 50s that would've qualified as spaceflight).

 

Vanir I'm not entirely sure if you are right about this one; I been reading the book Lockheed Blackbird book by Paul F. Crickmore; it has accounts form russian and Swedish pilots; it says that the mig-25 was able to get very close to the blackbird; for the mig-31 the book says that the blackbird didn't stand a chance against a well placed mig-31 with r-33. The mig-25 could get at 1.6 miles behind the blackbird orbiting West Germany. The mig-31 could reach 16000 after 2 minutes, if necessary they will reach 20000 (the blackbird usually traveled at 23000) to prepare the r-33 for launch. Most of the intercept would be conducted with the infrared seeking sight; the system was able to track the sr-71 from a distance of 120-100 km due to the big heat signature of the sr-71. the book also says that the russian were very precise at placing their migs on a good pat for interception. The Sweden Air force uses a more radical approach; they put the j35 into a steep head on climb.

[vanir]

Here's just what I've gathered from what I've been reading (open to correction).

 

According to a Russian Foxbat pilot, with four missiles the Foxbat-A can reach 21000m for two minutes before stalling out. With two missiles it can reach 24000m for two minutes before stalling out, the R40 themselves were effective in air-intercept to 27000m.

 

These are of course generalised guidelines as the atmosphere isn't static and has quite a bit of variation.

 

I've read one of the books by an ex-Blackbird pilot (Richard Graham I think but it might've been Brian Shul, it was a while ago), in which he directly inferred the Blackbird exceeded 30000m during missions, not an impossibility when you consider the non-static atmosphere however at any rate these are cruise altitudes and this is part of the tremendous difference between something like a Blackbird and something like a Foxbat.

 

23000m or 30000m doesn't really make such a difference. Foxbat high mach cruise (2.35-2.8 mach) is at 11500-13500m. Go higher and you trade airspeed to get there and run out of puff at 21-24000m unless you're doing a zoom regime, in which case you'll undoubtedly exceed 30km in a Foxbat but you won't be targeting anything, you can't fire missiles anyway and you've got pretty much no pilot control of the aircraft you're just a passenger. Pretty much any aircraft is really losing the effects of traditional control surfaces from about 21000m, which is just about the altitude limit of even things like the U-2 or any other specialised high altitude bird, in level flight and full throttle the F-15 Eagle stalls out well before it gets this high.

 

True the Foxhound is a much greater threat, its high mach cruise is 13500-17500m (meaning basically it can double the speed of an F-15 when both at 57000ft) and really is just a shade below the Blackbird up at those altitudes, the Foxhound kind of delivers what the Foxbat promised (pretty much due to dramatic engine improvement, max thrust limit of the D30F6 is up around 186kN apiece, st.sea level is around 152kN).

 

Foxbat really uses a carefully directed zoom to get a 21000m intercept, most of the intercept course is going to be at around 13000m altitude where its got its best speed. At a carefully planned point it'll be guided to a climb regime designed to retain as much airspeed as possible when reaching the missile release point.

The dangerous part about this for Blackbird crews is that they're not exactly going to be doing any immelmans trying to evade it. If they don't see the Foxbat on an intercept heading well before it gets to them they could be in big trouble from those big R40s which will definitely reach them.

 

That would be if...the Foxbat can retain enough airspeed once it reaches the missile release point at some 21000m or so, before the Blackbird has left it in its wake.

 

The Foxhound however is just about guaranteed to still be doing something like 2.5 mach at 21000m and quite happily in a level speed run (though it will be losing control and momentum).

Much, much, much more dangerous.

Edited October 13, 2010 by vanir