Disable SAMsides by destroying their RADAR?

[SNAFU]

I am looking for a russian SAM system, which consists of medium to long range RADAR guided SAMs so I put up 6 Sa-11 launchers and one Sa-11 Radar, with command vehicle, trucks and all that stuff.

(Found some info here:http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1690&catid=264 )

 

I was hoping the side would be disabled after destroying the RADAR vehicle, but the SAM launchers were not impressed at all and kept on launching their missiles.

 

I used DCS:BS 1.02 for mission building. Does anybody know a russian medium range SAM system in DCS which can be disabled by destroying their target acquisition radar?

[104th_Crunch]

Never noticed that. All SAMS that use separate Radar and Launchers can be disabled by destroying one of the components. Tried them all! Post a track.

[swift]

What Crunch said. BTW nice pair of missiles in that link.

 

 

 

 

 

[STP Dragon]

In my missions I'm using HAWK sides.

For a HAWK side you need the launcher, a tracking radar (TR) and a search radar (SR).

Once you destroyd the TR the HAWK side is disabled.

If you only kill the SR the HAWK side is still active but have a less fire distance.

[SNAFU]

Well, I only placed a SR to the group of the SAMs. At two points I tested about 2 dozen times the attack on the SAM side with my Ka50.

 

I destroyed the SR what triggered a bomber wing to bomb the rest of the SAM side. Well, the bombers on 8000m altitude were always shot down by the remaining launchers.

 

Another szenario I used were to destroy the RADAR by aircraft launched cruise missiles (Kh-95 don´t know, TV guided long range) which worked. 2 out of 4 cruise missles got through the SAM side defence and destroyed the SR. Then I popped up with my Ka-50 to finish the launchers, but they still were active.

 

I know that the Hawks do not operate anymore after destroying their RADARS, so I thought all RADAR guided SAMs would behave that way.

 

Sorry have no track here, next time I test, I will provide one. ;)

Just wanted to ask if someone experienced the same with the Sa-11 Buk system.

[104th_Crunch]

Buk LN launching without SR? Never seen that. If you ever get a chance, yes, post a track.

[SNAFU]

I now set up a test again and recorded the track.

 

Result: Sa11 still firing even without SR at ranges over 30km.

 

My mission more or less based on the assumption that they won´t launch anymore after destroying the radar. Guess I have to work around that with triggers.

 

Well, anyhow here´s the track and the setup miz.

Sa11Test.trk

Sa11withSR.miz

[Speed]

The SA-11 does not need a separate radar, there is actually one built into the transporter/erector/launcher. While it will function without a separate radar, it of course works better with one. If you guys would have flown Falcon 4 you would have known this (SA-11s were pains in the butt with the need for six harms to eliminate a single battalion)! :) ED properly models this in game and a single SA-11 launcher all by itself can engage targets. Its odd that you guys have not seen this in action in game, I have seen it several times.

 

Here's what wikipedia has to say on it:

 

"The Buk-M1-2 TELAR uses the GM-569 chassis designed and produced by JSC Metrowagonmash (former MMZ)[12] onto which is mounted a turret containing the fire control radar of the TELAR at the front and a launcher with four ready to fire missiles on top. Each TELAR is operated by a crew of 3 and is equipped with NBC protection. The radar fitted to each TELAR is referred to as the 'Fire Dome' by NATO, it is a monopulse type radar and can begin tracking at the missile's maximum range (32 km/20 mi) and can track aircraft flying at between 15,000 and 22,000 m (50,000 to 72,000 ft) altitudes. It can guide up to three missiles against a single target. The 9K37 system supposedly has much better ECCM characteristics (i.e. is more resistant to ECM/jamming) than the 3M9 Kub system that it replaces. An optical tracking system with laser rangefinder can be fitted for passive tracking of the target. The 9K37 system can also utilise the same 1S91 Straight Flush 25 kW G/H band continuous wave radar as the 3M9 Kub system"

 

 

If you want a ruskie sam site that needs a tracking radar, use an SA-10 or SA-6.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Speed

[Speed]

I now set up a test again and recorded the track.

 

Result: Sa11 still firing even without SR at ranges over 30km.

 

My mission more or less based on the assumption that they won´t launch anymore after destroying the radar. Guess I have to work around that with triggers.

 

Well, anyhow here´s the track and the setup miz.

 

Then it would be an unrealistic mission. Just use the SA-6. Similar engagement range, but no built-in radar on the SAM launchers :thumbup:

[104th_Crunch]

I guess since I am an oldtimer and simmed witht these since Flanker 1, I didn't notice these worked like this now. In FC1 SA-11 needed SR to fire.

 

Thanks Speed!

[Speed]

I guess since I am an oldtimer and simmed witht these since Flanker 1, I didn't notice these worked like this now. In FC1 SA-11 needed SR to fire.

 

Thanks Speed!

 

Ah, I see, then SA-11s firing without their search radar must be a new innovation with DCS/FC2.

 

I was in a SEAD sub-squad in the 16th in Falcon 4 so I had to learn a good deal about how to stop Russian SAM systems.

 

There appears to be an error in the wikipedia article too, it says the tracking radar can only track aircraft between 50k and 72k feet. Just wanted to be clear I do not endorse everything in that quoted section.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Speed

[Grimes]

Maybe the SR was required, but it didn't matter if it had actually detected aircraft or not. Coulda swore that's how Ice built is overkill SAM networks. He put a SA-11 SR way in the back and 30 SA-11 Launchers throughout the mission. Whenever the player got in range of the Launcher it would detect you and fire away even if you were not being detected by the SR.

 

Ever since BS and FC2 though you could just place a lone SA-11 Launcher and it would engage targets.

 

 

Of all of the major SAM defenses (non-army based) the Buk is the only one that can function without a Search Radar or Tracking Radar. All of the others can be disabled by destroying the SR and/or TR.

[bumfire]

Buk LN launching without SR? Never seen that. If you ever get a chance, yes, post a track.

 

Seen it many times. The first time I saw it I actually thought I had missed the radar, but time and time again playing the same mission, once the radar was killed and once I got within a certain distance from the Buk launchers, they would fire at me.

[104th_Crunch]

Seen it many times. The first time I saw it I actually thought I had missed the radar, but time and time again playing the same mission, once the radar was killed and once I got within a certain distance from the Buk launchers, they would fire at me.

 

So we found out in this thread. Most my time A2G since FC2 has been in the Shark hunting weaker SAMs. Okay, everyone is allowed to be wrong once. There is a first time for everything you know :D Please stop quoting my screw up lol j/k

[bumfire]

What was that you said, can you repeat it again please as I am slightly deaf and never heard you correctly.

I thought you said you SCREWED UP, but I am positive that wasnt what you said :D

 

 

;) :beer:

[SNAFU]

Ok, thanks for the hint Speed. ;) Already thought that dome at the launcher might be a radar device, but found no infor regarding that.

 

I played Falcon 4.0 a lot, but never cared much which SAM got me.

 

Sa-6 has little less range and less max. alt, I thought of that too, but have not tried yet. I will not move the samsides, which is a no-go after all the hours spent. Sa-10 looks promising.

 

Maybe I try Sa-2. ;)

Edited November 18, 2010 by SNAFU

[gmangnall]

It seems that the SA11 TELs have a radar azimuth limit of about 110-120 degrees (120 degrees is safe - 100 isnt) so if you kill the SR or the CP you can approach safely from the sides or behind.

[dmatsch]

dude, this thread is like two years old.  Don't feed the zombies