No Joy on PAPI lights at other airfields and another Q.

[mooshim]

One of the best things of this sim is this board. People are really helpful.

 

--now that I've buttered you up...I've got a noob Q.

 

I'm learning ILS landing as per the tutorial.

 

...GPS CUD DIVert ...UFC "Func" + "Nav" (2) button

 

Then I suppose I sent the ATC Frequency plus set up the ILS receiver.

 

On the left panel I set it up to 1300.00 which, I suppose, is the ACT frequency.

 

I get this and the ILS receiver confused. --At any rate, on the right panel... I want to set up the radio freq. But have not found the correct radio setting in the manual for that field.

 

Question 1:

Is there info on board--perhaps on the UFCD? to guide me to a particular airfield's radio frequency? --the data to be entered on my lower right panel, that is?

 

I wasn't able to contact ATC...

 

Many thanks for the help.

 

I can't remember when something as simple as landing felt so immersive--esp at night.

 

Question 2:

I don't see PAPI lights at this and other airfields. --I've seen one at one end of Batumi...but not the other. What happens if I have to land into the wind towards the shore-one day when the wind direction is in the reverse direction?

 

MANY Thanks for the help.

 

Moosh

 

P.S.

I'm in Seoul and there are Naval drills off the coast in the West Sea tomorrow...

 

If I don't respond immediately in this thread...it's probably cause artillery fire has taken out my WIFI.:bye_3:

[CrashEd]

Welcome to the forum.

 

You are running the training missions, trying things out and asking the right questions. That's a good start. Get your head into the manual and have a good read around the radio section. It's quite involved as there are 3 vox radios (left panel) and then the ILS and TACAN receivers (right panel). You also need to know the ILS and ATC frequencies for your airfield. Check out Shu77's excellent airfield charts.

 

The best thing you can do from there is to get yourself logged into the beta forum and start searching for threads relating to the radios. WarriorX's radio guide is excellent, so probably a good place to start. You need to read, fly, read, fly, then read some more! ;)

 

I'd post some links but I'm away from my pc at the moment. Hit the search button. Good luck :thumbup:

Edited November 27, 2010 by CrashEd

[mooshim]

Thanks Lots!

 

I'll check those charts out.

 

I'll look out for more PAPIs as well.

 

Cheers,

Moosh

 

**For others' reference**

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=60370

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=61349

Edited November 27, 2010 by mooshim

[zero]

I did also missed ILS/PAPI - but discovered that the HUD attitude cue marker is an excellent tool for approach. Keep it steady at threshold with throttle - no :joystick: and a kisser is 100%

[Frederf]

Not all runways have all the goodies like VASI/PAPI, ILS, or an on-field TACAN. A lot of the real airports in that region only land on one runway direction, Sochi-Adler for instance. Batumi has a similar terrain issue. Try to remember that all communication radios are on the left side and all navigation radios on are the right!

 

I'm working on developing a procedure to use the EGI navigation system to display an RNAV "ILS-style" approach so one can fly precision approaches into any field. All the systems are there and capable.

[mooshim]

THX~!!!

[BTTW-DratsaB]

I was also wondering how you know what the ILS freq was for each airfield, so :thumbup: for this thread.

 

I see though that only 3 airfields have TACAN or ILS capability. How do you do instrument landing at these airfields?

[Frederf]

A full ILS approach can be a complex. It starts at the initial approach fix (IAF) and follows a procedure to fly to the final approach fix (FAF) and down to the missed approach point (MAP.)

 

The in-game ATC will give you a vector (direction, distance) when you call inbound. This vector is to a point that is along the extended runway center line several miles out and an altitude of "pattern altitude" which I think is in the 2,000-3,000' AGL range.

 

Sometime before you reach this point you will want to have the approach's ILS frequency tuned on the ILS panel, the ILS system powered on, and the ILS button illuminated on the NMSP. It is helpful to have the HSI CRS knob set to the magnetic heading of the landing runway but not critical. You can get the runway heading from the F10 map with the distance tool and then subtract 6 degrees from that for local variation. Stow the ADI steering bars as they are misaligned and unnecessary for the approach.

 

As you reach the point given by ATC, turn toward the airfield keeping pattern altitude. You should cross the ILS localizer signal and the CDI needle on the HSI centers to show this. Fly the needle centered toward the airport until the glide scope needle on the left side of the ADI stops having a red flag and drops to the middle of the window.

 

When the G/S needle reaches the middle of the window, pitch down about 3 degrees (TVV) and continue toward the airport. If the CDI is displaced right then fly to the right to center it. If the G/S is above center then maintain altitude until it drops back to center. Keep this picture until you have visual contact with the runway. Proceed to land with visual reference.

 

You arrive at 2500' as you've done the distance at the heading that ATC told you. Around that time you should be intercepting the TACAN radial as seen by the needle swinging to center. As it does turn toward the station directly. A good approach will have to cross at a 30-45 degree angle for an easy but positive intercept. DCS ATC isn't always so kind so a more severe turn may be required. At any time you can bug ATC with an "I'm Lost" request and they will give you a heading to the point they want you to fly.

 

As you arrive at the point ATC should clear you for the visual approach. Turn in the airfield anyway when you intercept the TACAN radial. Switch over to the ILS system by turning off the TACAN button and turning on the ILS button on the NMSP and verify you're getting a signal.

[Kim Silva]

The RNAV (Area-navigation, which is at least just a matter of precisions-regulations for Airways and so on)-ILS-Style Approach is an approach which relies on INS [inertal navigation systen (gyro-operated)]/ GPS-Operadet or a combination of both.

If the surrounding terrain allowes you making this kind of approaches you are able to do such an appoach at almoust every Airfield, if your Plane has the capabilites for that!

Hardware!

On the other hand i know that a lot of airfields in the states as an example habe fully GPS-Based approaches with the charts as well!

BRGDS

Kim

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Thanks very much for that explanation Frederf. It helps with what I have read from the manual. I actually mucked up with what I was asking though :doh:. I was trying to ask how would you do an instrument landing at the airfields that dont have ILS or TACAN.

 

But thanks again for taking the time to explain about the ILS approach. :thumbup: I will print it out and use it as a reference.

[Dethmagnetic]

Thanks very much for that explanation Frederf. It helps with what I have read from the manual. I actually mucked up with what I was asking though :doh:. I was trying to ask how would you do an instrument landing at the airfields that dont have ILS or TACAN.

 

Unfortunately the short answer is "you wouldn't" :(. The A-10 needs a radio reference to do an instrument approach. Some real life aircraft can do instrument approaches with nothing but GPS, but the A-10 doesn't support this. In real life, you would probably be forced to divert to one of the airports that has an instrument approach, and return to your home base when the weather clears.

 

Edit: to clarify, you probably could set up your own approach procedure using the CDU/EGI and HSI, but I seriously doubt that this would be approved and/or actually done in real life.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Dethmagnetic

[Frederf]

With preparation it's easy. Just make your flightplan waypoints at sensible points. Starting from the "landing" point and working backward:

 

10. Landing (snaps to center runway)

9. 600m from numbers, Field elev + 30m

8. 10,000m from numbers, Field elev + 500m

7. 30° offset a few km, Field elev + 1000m

 

All waypoints are 3D computed. When you fly from 7 to 8 the overshoot will be small and you will pretty much be on extended runway center line flying from 8 to 9. 9 is the closest one can put a waypoint and still be on glide path. If you really want to get fancy set WPT 9 as scale approach and tune the HSI CRS knob to the true runway heading and follow the ADI steering bars.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

heh heh very clever! thanks again Frederf and Dethmagnetic.

 

I'm going to run through the landing tutorial again. I think have another couple of Qs relating to it that confused me.

 

Hope mooshim doesn't mind me Hijacking their thread!

Edited November 29, 2010 by BTTW-DratsaB

[mooshim]

heh heh very clever! thanks again Frederf and Dethmagnetic.

 

I'm going to run through the landing tutorial again. I think have another couple of Qs relating to it that confused me.

 

Hope mooshim doesn't mind me Hijacking their thread!

:book::thumbup:

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Landing Tutorial

 

So, I call Inbound to Batumi ATC and they reply "Fly heading 224 for 35, QFE, 29, Runway 13, to Pattern Alt"

 

The landing tutorial then says, "As indicated by the ATC, the Batumi Pressure Altimeter reading is 29.88 inHg." and asks you to set this on your altimeter.

 

Question is this, how did the instructor know it was 29.88 inHg when all the ATC said was 29?

 

When the mission starts the pressure level is already set to 29.99 so I'm guessing the XX.88 part is quite important.

 

Perhaps the ATC radio comms have yet to be fully finished?

 

Its not really going to cause me any problems when landing, I would just like to know.

[Frederf]

Because the ATC isn't finished yet :P It looks like the variable type for that value is int when it should be float. As such it truncates the fractional part of the value. You wouldn't be receiving QFE as a USAF pilot anyway... should be QNH.

 

Standard setting (and what's specified in the mission) is 29.92 so there must be some odd reason for the jet to start 29.99. The difference between 29.92 and 29.88 is about 40' which is pretty close to the elevation at Batumi of 10 meters.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

thanks for clearing that up!

[KryptKeeper]

BTW, you don't need the map or measure tool to get the runway heading. You can derive the heading of the runway by adding a zero to the runway number. I.e. runway 13 would mean you dial in a heading of '130' on your HSI. There are a few exceptions but most of the time you'll find that the runway heading is at least roughly the same as the runway number, and is usually within 5-10 degrees.