Avoiding Sam missiles, possible?

[Conure]

Hey all,

 

I know that avoiding Sams is the best thing to do, but is there a specific manoeuvre which will mitigate the chances of taking a hit by said missile (in conjunction with flares)?

[scoochy]

Beaming?

[Ragtop]

http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/news.html

 

There are some great videos here on Rich's site, they've helped me scrape past one or two SAMS in the past :P

[sofie_59]

Yes Beaming, Put the Lancher on your six a clock and relice chaff and flairs :smartass:

[Conure]

Excellent, Cheers guys... Ragtop will the A10 tutorials from lockon regarding the RWS and Manoeuvres apply to DCS too with its new modelling?

[effte]

Yes Beaming, Put the Lancher on your six a clock and relice chaff and flairs :smartass:

 

Three or nine o'clock of course averages to six o'clock, so the above is absolutely correct. ;)

 

Beaming the missile means you turn your hot exhaust away from the missile, should it be IR seeking, and also reduces the effectiveness of the missile's doppler radar, if it (more likely) is of the radar homing kind. It also makes it easier to acquire the missile visually.

 

As the missile closes in, you want to pull heavy G's in order to make the tracking solution harder. Turns into the missile are the best, but you don't want to get out of beam too early, so a vertical pull may also be in order.

[GGTharos]

The main reason to put a missile on the beam, all other things aside, is that it creates the worst problem (other than simply running away) for the missile to cope with. Any maneuver you do from there up or down is out-of-plane and the worst situation for the seeker as it will induce maximum seeker settling issues and maximum control delay, possibly causing the missile to miss far enough that it will fuze out of effective range or, if a last ditch maneuver is properly executed, out of optimal geometry. It might not fuze at all even.

[DocSigma]

What I do is place the incoming missile on the beam and descend while dumping CMS to increase airspeed(increasing energy) and turn into the missle when to increase it's TOF (time of flight) when it's very close. With this I usually defeat an incoming SA or AR SAM. If my airspeed isn't where it should(no energy) it's tough and I'm usually getting a nice view from while i slowly descend via parachute. IR missles are tough to defeat in the A10. I usually just try to maximize energy and increase the missles TOF while expending Flares.

[GGTharos]

Put the MLWS in AUTO. :)

[sofie_59]

Three or nine o'clock of course averages to six o'clock, so the above is absolutely correct. ;)

 

Beaming the missile means you turn your hot exhaust away from the missile, should it be IR seeking, and also reduces the effectiveness of the missile's doppler radar, if it (more likely) is of the radar homing kind. It also makes it easier to acquire the missile visually.

 

As the missile closes in, you want to pull heavy G's in order to make the tracking solution harder. Turns into the missile are the best, but you don't want to get out of beam too early, so a vertical pull may also be in order.

 

You so right !

I dont want to put in all that word/text!

I'm a bit lacy.

But i think he understand perfectly. :thumbup:

Edited January 22, 2011 by sofie_59

[todd022]

sam weave.

[Conure]

Thank you guys - You've given me some terms I didn't know to look up on google! Another thing..And this is a very very nooby question but I'll give a scenario..

 

I was flying a mission online with a friend and was at 12k agl about 10 miles out from the target which I spot at my 2 o clock...So, target is spotted...What's the best way to quickly get that target up on my TGP? I find it often takes me a long while to take something from the game world and place it on my TGP, much less get a good Mav lock. What I've been doing is..

 

*See target, place aircraft so that the target is at roughly my 12 o Clock and enable hud pipper (though sometimes the hud pipper has an X through it and jumps across scenery..Anyway) place pipper over target zone and set SPI

*Open TGP and Slave to SPI

*turn craft so target is at a relative 2 o clock and set AP to alt hold and orbit..

 

Problem is, I know this in theory but it never goes to plan! I find I'm too close to the enemy...

 

So anyway, say it all goes to plan and I begin an attach run with the GAU-8, I often find there is too much "hud clutter" (target SPI, WP etc etc) to clearly see the target...Is this normal? I just find it very hard to pick up a black spec on the ground through all the glowing HUD info!

 

Thanks :)

[GGTharos]

Here's a couple different ways to do it.

 

With TAD:

By using whatever zoom level in the map you are comfortable with (ie. default, EXP or EXP2), guesstimate the location of your target from visual to the map, place cursor over that place and create a markpoint.

Set CDU to MARK and slave the TGP to that markpoint.

 

With TGP/Maverick:

Bring up your TGP or Maverick, ensure they are SOI and select boresight. Check boresight on HUD.

Point TGP/Maverick symbol at target by maneuvering the place.

For TGP: Once the diamond is over the target, move the tgp slightly and it will begin inertial tracking. Resume normal flight, make a markpoint if you want. Reset your flight to an initial point and attack.

 

For Maverick: Same as with tgp intially, but instead of moving it, just hit TMS aft short to ground stabilize and immediately create a markpoint with it - or adjust the sight onto target and attack right away if you prefer.

 

In any case, don't forget to offset/reset your flight to the desired altitude and IP before you commence attacking. Don't press you attack if you don't have to at first.

 

Finally, if you go to GUN mode on the HUD, the gun pipper should occlude any symbology under it.

[Conure]

Ahh, CDU - A new term I haven't looked into! Wondered what it was..This sim REALLY is turning into a study Sim..The systems make the Black Shark look relatively simple!

 

The boresight screen, that's just the bit you can slew about isn't it?

 

Thanks

[GGTharos]

Boresight means you set the seeker/sensor to simply point straight ahead, aligned with your aircraft centerline. It will not move/stabilize/whatever until you tell it to. It 'looks' where you're pointing the aircraft - so yes, 'the bit you slew about' will be on the HUD and will not move as you maneuver the aircraft.

 

I believe you command the SOI to boresight with China Aft Short, but I don't remember well.

Edited January 21, 2011 by GGTharos

[Conure]

Boresight means you set the seeker/sensor to simply point straight ahead, aligned with your aircraft centerline. It will not move/stabilize/whatever until you tell it to. It 'looks' where you're pointing the aircraft - so yes, 'the bit you slew about' will be on the HUD and will not move as you maneuver the aircraft.

 

I believe you command the SOI to boresight with China Aft Short, but I don't remember well.

 

Ah I know what you mean - Yeah it's China Aft Short! Thanks :)

[hassata]

Apart from creating solution problems, and setting up for visual acquisition and pulling into a missile, beaming could 'filter' you out of radar types that are geared to acquiring targets moving towards or away from it, correct?

[Conure]

What actually is beaming? googled but can't find it!

[GGTharos]

hassata, that is notching. Beaming alone means to put them on the 3-9 line.

 

Notching requires you to enter the doppler notch, so you beam to the notch but the additional requirement is that you must force a look-down problem. Although it is not modeled in DCS currently, I expect that it woudl also create some issue with look-up and chaff, but in look-down you just vanish from the radar if you beam to the notch.

[Yoni63]

@DocSigma.. well said.. Same tactics I have used and it usually gets you at least past the first one. After that I stay low and egress the area until I can regroup and either go after that launcher or avoid it completely.

[tusler]

What actually is beaming? googled but can't find it!

 

It is short for abeam or at your side the 3 or 9 position on the clock relative to your heading at 12.

if you look out past you wing tip and see an object then that object is abeam your plane or you are beaming the object.

That is my best guess.:smartass:

[Conure]

It is short for abeam or at your side the 3 or 9 position on the clock relative to your heading at 12.

if you look out past you wing tip and see an object then that object is abeam your plane or you are beaming the object.

That is my best guess.:smartass:

 

Yes I think so too after seeing another thread! Cheers for reply. Final question..The F10 map..I feel like I'm cheating when I use it but I saw it is "AWACS" so is it not actually cheating? Also, It gave me a few enemy indicators but there were loads of tanks/aa etc...not everything appeared, why's that?

 

thanks

[Yoni63]

That's a nice vid site, just DL's a bit slow is all. Thx.

[scoochy]

I think the F10 map only shows items that aren't "hidden" in the mission.

[T.Goat]

"Beam to the notch" sounds like slang for something.