Hatchet Posted June 22, 2005 Author Posted June 22, 2005 Just uploaded some more corrupted graphic pics, so I thought I would add them. Some are catastrophic, and some are merely irritating, like the smoked pattern on the canopy...
D17S Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 Are you using the same LOMAC CD and/or DL'd patch for all these installs. Maybe a corrupted file or a bad factory burn. It's gotta be something common and that's about all that's left. . . . Except . . . You have big power supplies, but have you monitiored volts during actual gameplay? If all these boxes are in the same neighborhood (or not) it could be line voltage. You might try getting Motherboard Monitor (google it, get it, it's free) and record a voltage log while you are playing. If volts go low, stick a volt meter in the wall before you spend on a new PS. There has been one case after another where LOMAC refuses to run at all where every other program on the system works with polished perfection. Often, the mystery goes unsolved. LOMAC is a very fragile program . . . it doesn't take much . . . . 3 machines and 2 cards . . .this is just too wierd!
Hatchet Posted June 22, 2005 Author Posted June 22, 2005 Are you using the same LOMAC CD and/or DL'd patch for all these installs. Maybe a corrupted file or a bad factory burn. It's gotta be something common and that's about all that's left. . . . Except . . . You have big power supplies, but have you monitiored volts during actual gameplay? If all these boxes are in the same neighborhood (or not) it could be line voltage. You might try getting Motherboard Monitor (google it, get it, it's free) and record a voltage log while you are playing. If volts go low, stick a volt meter in the wall before you spend on a new PS. There has been one case after another where LOMAC refuses to run at all where every other program on the system works with polished perfection. Often, the mystery goes unsolved. LOMAC is a very fragile program . . . it doesn't take much . . . . 3 machines and 2 cards . . .this is just too wierd! D17S, Great ideas, except... (1) different install CDs, and (2) like you said, quality PSs (although they could be defective) (BUT, the odds of three quality PSs going bad... quite high, and (3) there are actually THREE vid cards doing this. I did dl MM5 a couple days ago, but got distracted trying to diagnose these in different ways. I am running it now, and will configure it to report/record the data on all the diff volt lines. Thanks! I forgot about this potential problem. Course, that would mean the brand new Antec true power is bad, as well as my trusty Enermax (which has moved with my best components to my "best" system three times in the last couple years), AND my brother's new PS (generic 550 watt-er) is bad too. Would have to be VERY coincedental. (But possible.) One last thing: ALL my computer stuff runs off of APC UPS systems. (Heck, even my TV and ReplayTV run off APC UPS's. lol. West Texas thunderstorms can knock power out easily, and lightening is about as common here as sunshine is to Southern California!) So, I think my AC line-in power is fairly "clean." At least clean enough for a quality PS like an Enermax to function properly. Plus, the other two systems are now both in other States, so their local power would have to be flakey too. I will report the voltage logs tomorrow. I am really leaning toward thinking that the Leadtek BIOS is not LOMAC compatible. I really need to find some folks running this particular Leadtek 6800GT to see. I wimped out on calling Leadtek today, but most likely will tomorrow. I will be referencing this forum thread to give them tons of data to look at. Thank you so much for responding. I will definitely look at the volt lines, and make sure they are stable and within tolerances. Hatchet BTW, all, I have installed a temp monitoring system (WINFOX) from Leadtek, so I can even more closely monitor the temps on the card. (This card has got to be the most monitored, coddled, and pampered card on the flippin' planet, and still it will not behave. ;-) )
Hatchet Posted June 22, 2005 Author Posted June 22, 2005 All, Just quick data while the system is idle. Information courtesy of SSandra 2005. I have to check to make sure the Environment Monitor is the correct one, but SSandra says it is. Having trouble configuring MM5 to use this ITE IT8705/12 ISA. I will report again tomorrow under 3d load (LOMAC.) Environment Monitor 1 Model : ITE IT8705/12 ISA Mainboard Specific Support : No Temperature Sensor(s) Board Temperature : 29.0°C / 84.2°F CPU Temperature : 33.0°C / 91.4°F Power / Aux Temperature : 30.0°C / 86.0°F Cooling Device(s) Auto Fan Speed Control : No CPU Fan Speed : 2679rpm Voltage Sensor(s) CPU Voltage : 1.57V Aux Voltage : 1.54V +3.3V Voltage : 3.38V +5V Voltage : 5.11V +12V Voltage : 11.54V -12V Voltage : -11.87V -5V Voltage : -3.45V Standby Voltage : 5.03V Battery Voltage : 4.08V AGP Bus(es) on Hub 1 Version : 3.00 Speed : 8x Fast-Writes Enabled : Yes Isochronous Mode Enabled : No Addressing Enabled : 32-bit Aperture Size : 128MB
Joe Posted June 22, 2005 Posted June 22, 2005 I am really leaning toward thinking that the Leadtek BIOS is not LOMAC compatible. I really need to find some folks running this particular Leadtek 6800GT to see. I wimped out on calling Leadtek today, but most likely will tomorrow. I will be referencing this forum thread to give them tons of data to look at. I have a Leadtek 6800GT on the way. I will tell you how it behaves in Flaming Cliffs when it arrives. SimHQ Technology Editor TSH member
Hatchet Posted June 22, 2005 Author Posted June 22, 2005 I have a Leadtek 6800GT on the way. I will tell you how it behaves in Flaming Cliffs when it arrives. Man Joe! I was not really expecting that level of support from this board! ;-) lmao VERY nice of you to risk ~$300 like to help me fix this. ;-) Seriously, I can hardly wait to hear your experience with it. The following is a link to a (hopefully, and most likely) different set of problems with Leadtek 6800GTs: http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic17943.html Also, what would be some other 3d applications to install, run, and test that are similiar to Lock On 1.02? LOMAC is DirectX 8.1, right? Does it use any special, or rarely used video display attributes (Pixel shading, vertex shading, etc.) that I could test with other 3d apps? I am in over my head as far as these special rendering methods, so please excuse this, if it is a stupid question. By the way, I spent 4 hours last night getting spun up on BIOS settings as related to AGP, and bookmarked many that explained each setting and why it needs to be set certain ways. If anyone would like these links, let me know and I will post them. Thanks for responding Joe, Hatchet
Guest lungbutter Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I saw something very, very similar with Half Life 2 when I upgraded my FX5200 for a PNY 6600. The only method with which I managed to resolve the issue was a complete reinstall, removing and reinstalling the driver ( even with use of driver cleaner ) was completely ineffective. Oddly, Doom3 was unaffected by this issue.
D17S Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 This was helpful. Voltage Sensor(s) CPU Voltage : 1.57V Aux Voltage : 1.54V +3.3V Voltage : 3.38V +5V Voltage : 5.11V +12V Voltage : 11.54V -12V Voltage : -11.87V -5V Voltage : -3.45V Standby Voltage : 5.03V Battery Voltage : 4.08V You saw the: “-5V Voltage : -3.45V” ? Something’s wrong here. +12V Voltage : 11.54V OK at idle, but watch this. It mustn’t go much lower. This is your Vcard buss. I don't see the ram volts. Make sure they are set to 2.7. (in bios) As far as a video card stress tester. I looked too. I couldn’t find anything I was satisfied would stress the Vcard as much as LOMAC itself. Frankly, I don’t think anything exists that is as big a Vcard load as LOMAC. If you want a video loop to clamp down on your card, those tracks that came with the program will stress the card under LOMAC conditions. Just fire up a big A-10 track with lots of smoke and let it run. It will loop as long as you let it. As far as electrical load, that Leadtech looks like a hungry monster . . . in a good way. Your overclock was impressive . . . but if anything can drag off a PS, that is going to be it. Here’s some power consumption numbers in a review about the new 7800: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050622/nvidia_7800_gtx-10.html Time after time, LOMAC has proven itself capable of causing a particular system to hang, or even reboot, where no other game had any problems at all, graphic or otherwise. Single 6800 card loads are 240/180 for boot/idle. Boot uses the HD, idle does not. This implies 60 watts for the harddrive (240-180). Game play is 275 watts. So, if idle uses no HD and gameplay (suggests) no HD use too, just a loaded Vcard, this implies a Vcard load of 95watts (275-180). This sounds "ballpark" right. I've heard 110watts is not at all unusual for a Vcard. Add em up. Idle is 180, HD is 60, loaded Vcard is 95 = 335 watts. You should be OK, but 1) That Leadteck has one momma of a Vcard cooling solution and 2) LOMAC will actually shut down computers that any other game is fine with. With these additional 2 unknowns, now you’re easily coming up to your PS’s rated max power. Get a little hiccup in line voltage and there it is. I’m becoming increasing suspicious of voltage related “situations” LOMAC might be causing. These graphic problems you are having might be indicating voltage levels that are right on the edge of a system shutdown. However, because of the quality of power you are providing, the computer hangs in there. . . . . or this could be total pie-in-the-sky nonsense! I really don’t know. Honest, I am not claiming any kind of expertise here. But, if MBM is set up to run a log during gameplay, a voltage decrease during your graphic problems could be obvious . . . probably on the 12 volt buss (rail). By the way, I had constant system lockups. My final solution was a complete “X-overwrite”, then F-disk, Format, then reinstall of pre-SP2, XP. I had a software conflict that I was only able to solve by starting over. Mine was not a voltage issue because everything’s the same and LOMAC is now stable (well, as LOMAC gets!) So a reinstall of XP fixed me, but for your case, I’m still liking the voltage angle. Make sure you don’t have ACE codec pack installed. (Just a rumor) Hang in there
Hatchet Posted June 23, 2005 Author Posted June 23, 2005 This was helpful. Voltage Sensor(s) CPU Voltage : 1.57V Aux Voltage : 1.54V +3.3V Voltage : 3.38V +5V Voltage : 5.11V +12V Voltage : 11.54V -12V Voltage : -11.87V -5V Voltage : -3.45V Standby Voltage : 5.03V Battery Voltage : 4.08V You saw the: “-5V Voltage : -3.45V” ? Something’s wrong here. +12V Voltage : 11.54V OK at idle, but watch this. It mustn’t go much lower. This is your Vcard buss. I don't see the ram volts. Make sure they are set to 2.7. (in bios) D17S, I forgot to go back and edit my post with these voltages. Sorry. I had selected the wrong board sensor when I first installed MBM. It was the one that MBM wanted as default, but I kept looking at the +5 volt line, and was convinced that that could not be correct. Further research on MBM's site and a better ("correct") install of the mobo sensor database yielded the correct sensor choice. Sorry to have wasted some of your time. Here are the correct values: +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Total number of readouts: 96 CPU Speed: 2360 MHz | |Running from: 6/23/2005 10:38:03 AM until: 6/23/2005 10:54:01 AM | +-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ |Sensor | Current | Low | High | Average | +-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ |Case | 31° C | 30° C | 32° C | 31° C | |CPU | 36° C | 34° C | 41° C | 38° C | |Sensor 3 | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C | 0° C | |Core 0 | 1.55 V | 1.54 V | 1.60 V | 1.56 V | |Core 1 | 1.54 V | 1.52 V | 1.54 V | 1.53 V | |+3.3 | 3.36 V | 3.31 V | 3.38 V | 3.35 V | |+5.00 | 5.16 V | 5.08 V | 5.16 V | 5.12 V | |+12.00 | 11.66 V | 11.66 V | 11.85 V | 11.71 V | |-12.00 | -12.03 V | -12.36 V | -11.79 V | -12.10 V | |DDR | 1.70 V | 1.68 V | 1.71 V | 1.70 V | |+5VSB | 4.84 V | 4.78 V | 4.89 V | 4.84 V | |Fan 1 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | |Fan 2 | 2678 RPM | 2636 RPM | 2678 RPM | 2660 RPM | |Fan 3 | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | 0 RPM | +-----------------------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+ I set the log up to record every 10 seconds and then flew LOMAC for 90% of the time of these readings. The +12 line does concern me a bit. It is at these levels even under idle, so I am thinking about cracking the case on the Enermax and adjusting it up a bit. (I am not sure, but I suspect there is a potentiometer in there to adjust it. Time to crack out the digital VO meter.) Like I said in an earlier post, I have upped the AGP voltage to 1.55, but I may crank it up to 1.6. (Still debating that.) I have not adjusted the RAM voltage, but MBM is reporting it at 1.7v. I will confirm in BIOS and probably up it a bit (since the FSB is 215 instead of 200.) I will post again in about 30 mintes with another quick test. Thanks for the input. Hatchet
Hatchet Posted June 23, 2005 Author Posted June 23, 2005 HL2 test I saw something very, very similar with Half Life 2 when I upgraded my FX5200 for a PNY 6600. The only method with which I managed to resolve the issue was a complete reinstall, removing and reinstalling the driver ( even with use of driver cleaner ) was completely ineffective. Oddly, Doom3 was unaffected by this issue. Lungbutter (uhg!) ;-) I will install HL2 right now to test. Thanks for input. I will report back asap. Hatchet
Joe Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 “-5V Voltage : -3.45V” ? Something’s wrong here. Modern motherboards don't use the -5V line and it is often reported incorrectly by hardware monitors. Ignore it. 1) That Leadteck has one momma of a Vcard cooling solutionWhile the heatsink is quite the monster, the fan is just a typical 60mm computer fan, and probably draws less power than any other fan in the system. I too am concerned about the 12V line. 11.5 is way too low. SimHQ Technology Editor TSH member
504 Wolverine Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Modern motherboards don't use the -5V line and it is often reported incrrectly by hardware monitors. Ignore it. Thats a relief, I just installed my new Hiper 580w psu and it was reading 3.55 on the -5v line. You just saved the pc from a fate worse that death. Me tinkering with it. :D [/url]
Hatchet Posted June 23, 2005 Author Posted June 23, 2005 Modern motherboards don't use the -5V line and it is often reported incrrectly by hardware monitors. Ignore it. While the heatsink is quite the monster, the fan is just a typical 60mm computer fan, and probably draws less power than any other fan in the system. I too am concerned about the 12V line. 11.5 is way too low. Joe, While I agree that the 12v line is a bit low, I don't think that it is "way too" low. The report (run during LOMAC) shows a low of 11.66 and an avg of 11.71. Even using the "low" of 11.66 that is still within 5% of target voltage. I may tweak the PS only because I would like to be higher than 12v and still within 5%. ;-) Thanks, Hatchet
Hatchet Posted June 23, 2005 Author Posted June 23, 2005 All, I do have another issue though. I went to run 3dmark 2005 to check for corruption, and it will not run. I says I don't have at least pixel shading 2.0! Odd, the Leadtek 6800GT datasheet (and all 6800GTs as far as I know) have PS3.0! What gives? I re-installed 3dmark2005, and am running driver version 77.62. I am going to remove 77.62, do the driver clean, and install 77.72. But this should not matter. I wonder what is up with the PS version being reported or running... Hatchet
D17S Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 You locked your AGP buss speed (in the bios) for the FSB overclock, right? AGP busses have a hard time with O/C'ing. With my Abit IS7, I have the volts for my 2/512 sticks of Corsair XMS upped from the default 2.6 to 2.7. I believe we are all using the same type of ram these days. . . maybe not . . . but typically DDR volts are 2.6-2.7. Might have a look at this. PC3200/1.7 volt ram would be new to me. If so, that 1.7v is way low. Now that you got MBM going, throw it all at LOMAC and try to get it to frag. Heat, big missions, blow up everything in sight! . . . the works. Break it, like it broke before. The story will be there.
Hatchet Posted June 23, 2005 Author Posted June 23, 2005 You locked your AGP buss speed (in the bios) for the FSB overclock, right? AGP busses have a hard time with O/C'ing. ...QUOTE] Good lead. nVidia nTune reports my AGP bus speed at 66.818 Mhz, so I am good there. Gonna check the RAM voltage next... Hatchet
Hatchet Posted July 4, 2005 Author Posted July 4, 2005 Really curious... I have a Leadtek 6800GT on the way. I will tell you how it behaves in Flaming Cliffs when it arrives. Joe, How did/does it work? Any issues? RL got in the way with me actively looking in to this. I will be back to trying to solve the issue this week. I am WAY curious about your experiences with the Leadtek. Hatchet
Pilotasso Posted July 5, 2005 Posted July 5, 2005 Try disabling AGP fast writes. May sound like a perfomance punishment but its not. this is a controversial technology and some GFX specialists support the idea it should be turned off on Intel systems. .
Hatchet Posted July 5, 2005 Author Posted July 5, 2005 Try disabling AGP fast writes. May sound like a perfomance punishment but its not. this is a controversial technology and some GFX specialists support the idea it should be turned off on Intel systems. It is off - problem still exists. Thanks for the input though. Hatchet
Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN Posted July 6, 2005 Posted July 6, 2005 well i been readin, and i can only say that you sure are thorough in bug hunting :) anyways back to the point, could it not be your copy of lockon is corrupted and thats why you are gettin these weird graphics ??? I dunno but if you havent done it already a format did help me once, ages ago mind you and it is a bit drastic to do on the hope that it will fix it but i think you have covered everything else, i dunno if you have formatted but you can maybe now consider it if you havent already done so, also see if you can source another copy of the game as that may be the culprit... GL anyway
Hatchet Posted July 6, 2005 Author Posted July 6, 2005 well i been readin, and i can only say that you sure are thorough in bug hunting :) anyways back to the point, could it not be your copy of lockon is corrupted and thats why you are gettin these weird graphics ??? ... GL anyway Mr. Evil-..., or is it Dr. Evil-Scotsman? ;-) Great ideas, but this is happening on three different systems. loaded with three different install CDs of Lock On. The only common component is the Leadtek 6800GT. RL snuck up on me and has occupied my time for the last couple weeks, but I have some more time now to solve this bizarre problem (with ya'lls help of course.) I am really looking forward to hearing about Joe's experience with his new Leadtek... And thanks for the thoroughness compliment - it is hard to solve a comp problem without examining ALL variables/possibilities. Hatchet 1
Conuk Posted July 6, 2005 Posted July 6, 2005 what temps does the card get @ idle and while running intense Lock on setup ?
Pilotasso Posted July 6, 2005 Posted July 6, 2005 It must be a bad card... check if you can get a refund or swap cards. .
RedBear Posted July 7, 2005 Posted July 7, 2005 Well hatchet i am runnig lock on ver 1.02 on a 2.6 AMD athlon and MSI gfx5500 driver 77.50 and i have the same problem (those shadows and graphics you have) not the same system and cpu but could be something with the drivers or something with DX9c in my case. That happens to me when i run lock on 16 bites color mode on 32 it runs fine.
D17S Posted July 7, 2005 Posted July 7, 2005 You locked your AGP buss speed (in the bios) for the FSB overclock, right? AGP busses have a hard time with O/C'ing. With my Abit IS7, I have the volts for my 2/512 sticks of Corsair XMS upped from the default 2.6 to 2.7. I believe we are all using the same type of ram these days. . . maybe not . . . but typically DDR volts are 2.6-2.7. Might have a look at this. PC3200/1.7 volt ram would be new to me. If so, that 1.7v is way low. Now that you got MBM going, throw it all at LOMAC and try to get it to frag. Heat, big missions, blow up everything in sight! . . . the works. Break it, like it broke before. The story will be there. Sorry to hear it's still broke. At this point I'd suggest to just focus on one machine. 3 broken machines spread all over is just too wierd! Ck ram volts. If that's OK, then try to break it with the MBM volt log going. Break it . . . Smash it. "Break it . . . like it broke before!" If still nothing (and you have a spare HD) do a fresh XP install. I'm a big advocate of a fresh XP install if the hardware is stable. If the hardware is stable, a software conflict is about all that's left. These conflicts can be impossible to find (for us ordinaty folks) and this could be a real time saver. (Don't just format. Overwrite the whole drive in "XXXX"s, then format and re-install XP) Install LOMAC and your stick software before anything else. If the hardware's OK, LOMAC will run (as well as it ever does). Bring the software load back up slowly and watch for LOMAC to break. I know it's the same on all 3 machines, but maybe it's the same on all 3 machines! It could be just that wierd. Something is!
Recommended Posts