Sov13t Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 On the other hand, accusations that the US somehow has dumber aerodynamicists proved to be false. NOOOOOOOOOO! My Su-50TMSM35 will pwnall.org!!!! :megalol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 51st PVO Regiment | Forum | Statistics DCS: MiG-21Bis
GGTharos Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 I can't rep you but Su-50TMSM35 FTW :P [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Shinigami Posted April 7, 2011 Author Posted April 7, 2011 They are. They're the unclassified operator's manuals. Yes downgraded versions They do not. If you pick up one of those books and learn it, you could safely operate the aircraft (as far as flying goes) as long as you also have some pilot training. Yes but I was talking about dogfight book like the one I told you, that dam I didn't get to still for personal consume.:D Sure they are. But the stuff you would REALLY want to see, like RWR, radar, weapons operation is not. Those are classified, locked in vaults that you are not take them out of ;) That's my point, That bad is my english!!!!!! that you didn't understand me either???? No. Rather it is difficult to find real information, and for the most part there is a good case of easterphilia and westernphilia. Like it or not, it just turns out that the Russian aircraft lagged behind in avionics which gives most of the BVR envelope away to western aircraft. Modern eastern aircraft are small in numbers right now, though they are starting to catch up. Well that's your opinion I differ cause not having glass cockpit doesn't means that russian planes were inferior they do his task pretty darn well, right not so easy as a glass cockpit one but in other spec the Russian were superior to the US. And we start again round one fight!!!!! :D On the other hand, accusations that the US somehow has dumber aerodynamicists proved to be false. Well you passed the hand over the surface of any russian plane???? they have to be better in aerodynamic cause all the rivets are protuberant and the surfaces are not so flat as US planes that have better finishing work. :D So they are master of aerodynamic:pilotfly: Shinigami Out... La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 Yes downgraded versions Nope, full-up -1's. They might be mising the latest inserts. Yes but I was talking about dogfight book like the one I told you, that dam I didn't get to still for personal consume.:D Oh please. If you want dogfighting you read R. Shaw and theoretically, if you can understand it and you can understand the graphs in the manuals, you can get the gist on aircraft vs. aircraft. That's my point, That bad is my english!!!!!! that you didn't understand me either???? You didn't say what you meant. I suppose that's fair, since you don't know what books we are talking about. Well that's your opinion I differ cause not having glass cockpit doesn't means that russian planes were inferior they do his task pretty darn well, right not so easy as a glass cockpit one but in other spec the Russian were superior to the US. And we start again round one fight!!!!! :D They were inferior. Get over it. MiG pilots themselves say so, and those who do not would be up for a very ugly surprise. It isn't about glass cockpits - those sure help with the ergonomics, but it is a different factor. The old Russian equipment was simply not competitive. After that, the USSR collapsed and they had trouble making anything competitive in reasonable numbers. China was still playing catch-up. Today, western fighters still have the advantage, but the gap is closing. Well you passed the hand over the surface of any russian plane???? they have to be better in aerodynamic cause all the rivets are protuberant and the surfaces are not so flat as US planes that have better finishing work. :D So they are master of aerodynamic:pilotfly:Well that's just comedy :megalol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Shinigami Posted April 7, 2011 Author Posted April 7, 2011 Nope, full-up -1's. They might be mising the latest inserts. That's no true and you know it, alway the export version is some what not so good as the real one Western or Eastern unless the buying country has the technology to upgrade the export version or a third party contract. Oh please. If you want dogfighting you read R. Shaw and theoretically, if you can understand it and you can understand the graphs in the manuals, you can get the gist on aircraft vs. aircraft. Will study on the mater, also I get to learn for a real Mig pilot though he may not give me all the juice details. :D They were inferior. Get over it. MiG pilots themselves say so, and those who do not would be up for a very ugly surprise. It isn't about glass cockpits - those sure help with the ergonomics, but it is a different factor. The old Russian equipment was simply not competitive. After that, the USSR collapsed and they had trouble making anything competitive in reasonable numbers. China was still playing catch-up. Today, western fighters still have the advantage, but the gap is closing. Well that's just comedy :megalol: Keep dreaming.... Were is the data, is still your opinion convince me with data and I get over it... Also with all their maithies airplanes and weaponry. Is in their strategy book for the cool war era that they anticipated that all European country's fleet will only endure and I say again ENDURE one week of the conflict. afterward they have to invent to see if they could protect USA. Shinigami Out.. La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted April 7, 2011 Posted April 7, 2011 That's no true and you know it, alway the export version is some what not so good as the real one Western or Eastern unless the buying country has the technology to upgrade the export version or a third party contract. Actually it is true and you don't know what you're talking about. Those -1's are USAF documents, not exports. Keep dreaming.... Were is the data, is still your opinion convince me with data and I get over it...I don't need to dream; I know enough pilots to understand the gist of how things would go in aerial combat ;) Also with all their maithies airplanes and weaponry. Is in their strategy book for the cool war era that they anticipated that all European country's fleet will only endure and I say again ENDURE one week of the conflict. afterward they have to invent to see if they could protect USA. Shinigami Out..The main cold war strategy for the USSR was to open the war with tactical nukes. I don't think you want to imagine where that would end; you can either talk air warfare, or the end of the world. You choose. As far as a conventional conflict goes, the front lines of NATO were meant to endure and delay for a short time before reinforcements were put in place. Really, who would win that one is anyone's guess. One thing I know for sure though: here eagles fly, MiGs die ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Shinigami Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 I work with the data of both planes and rockets remember my thesis(I don't want to brag over this) and my data say you are wrong, I don't negate that the US have good planes but the advantage is not on their side is on both sides, some has better weapon for a particular issue but other has better one for other issues. One more time I don't care that you know a lot of pilots all my family is divided in between medics and military men's (to enforce the bad propaganda about us) and they always say that intel is the most reliable source. you are just whining cause you don't have any real data on the matter. your are only talking of what somebody told you; you have not mentioned any source of real information. Shinigami Out... La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 ... uh. Carlo Kopp's data? 'Cause you don't seem to have anything useful :D I work with the data of both planes and rockets remember my thesis(I don't want to brag over this) and my data say you are wrong, I don't negate that the US have good planes but the advantage is not on their side is on both sides, some has better weapon for a particular issue but other has better one for other issues. One more time I don't care that you know a lot of pilots all my family is divided in between medics and military men's (to enforce the bad propaganda about us) and they always say that intel is the most reliable source. you are just whining cause you don't have any real data on the matter. your are only talking of what somebody told you; you have not mentioned any source of real information. Shinigami Out... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
topol-m Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 I work with the data of both planes and rockets remember my thesis(I don't want to brag over this) and my data say you are wrong, I don't negate that the US have good planes but the advantage is not on their side is on both sides, some has better weapon for a particular issue but other has better one for other issues. One more time I don't care that you know a lot of pilots all my family is divided in between medics and military men's (to enforce the bad propaganda about us) and they always say that intel is the most reliable source. Shinigami Out... Could you be more precise? You`re trying to disprove Tharos with "data" you say you have, yet you don`t provide such. I`m trying to understand here what exactly is that you`re trying to prove, a statement "Mig-29 is better than F-15" does not sound serious. Elaborate more on what do you think its better with. You don`t agree US aircraft have better avionics? Avionics is not just glass cockpit, so again can you be more precise? What superior features do you find in mig`s avionics? And what does "some has better weapon for a particular issue but other has better one for other issues." mean? Looks like jiberrish. No one is comparing air-to-air missiles to bombs, you compare weaponry that has the same purpose and use. So for instance if you`re comparing aim-9x to R-73 there are no "particular issues" and "other issues". you are just whining cause you don't have any real data on the matter. your are only talking of what somebody told you; you have not mentioned any source of real information. Tharos has provided numerous data, graphs, manuals, etc. materials throughout his long presence on these forums so I advise you not to reject so easily what he says. You might want to aks him to explain better something that you don`t agree with or that doesn`t seem clear for you, but I assure you he`s not whining. For a game forum this place contains a hell of a lot of an information about military aviation and a lot of people with knowledge and/or experience post and discuss different matters here. Have the patience to read, listen and learn instead of participating in meaningless discussions that are going on here and there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shaman Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 None of the above. I wish to fly MiG-31M :) 51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-) 100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-) :: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky tail# 44 or 444 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 100KIAP Regiment Early Warning & Control officer
GGTharos Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Long range interception FTW :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Long range interception FTW :) Not on the current map :D Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Shinigami Posted April 8, 2011 Author Posted April 8, 2011 Could you be more precise? You`re trying to disprove Tharos with "data" you say you have, yet you don`t provide such. I`m trying to understand here what exactly is that you`re trying to prove, a statement "Mig-29 is better than F-15" does not sound serious. Yes I don't, it will sound like a easy move but the some of the data I have is not for public view so forget it, but i could point you to some work's that are aviable for public access. Are you interested???? Elaborate more on what do you think its better with. You don`t agree US aircraft have better avionics? Avionics is not just glass cockpit, so again can you be more precise? What superior features do you find in mig`s avionics? And what does "some has better weapon for a particular issue but other has better one for other issues." mean? Looks like jiberrish. No one is comparing air-to-air missiles to bombs, you compare weaponry that has the same purpose and use. So for instance if you`re comparing aim-9x to R-73 there are no "particular issues" and "other issues". This discussion is futile, even though I gave you guys all the data that there is in the world there would always be somebody that have a different opinion because this not a data argue is personal choice argue. So I'm dropping the discussion. Tharos has provided numerous data, graphs, manuals, etc. materials throughout his long presence on these forums so I advise you not to reject so easily what he says. You might want to aks him to explain better something that you don`t agree with or that doesn`t seem clear for you, but I assure you he`s not whining. Are you reading the same post that me????? I don't see any so fell free to enlighten me. For a game forum this place contains a hell of a lot of an information about military aviation and a lot of people with knowledge and/or experience post and discuss different matters here. Have the patience to read, listen and learn instead of participating in meaningless discussions that are going on here and there. I didn't started. La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MoGas Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Yes I don't, it will sound like a easy move but the some of the data I have is not for public view so forget it, but i could point you to some work's that are aviable for public access. Are you interested???? . I am interested...:)
hassata Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) The different design philosophies can be summarized as follows: American approach: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80688242/ Russian approach: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81138422/ Edited April 8, 2011 by hassata [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shinigami Posted April 11, 2011 Author Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) I am interested...:) Sorry for the late post Some of the info is in books that are in or national library like the Congress Library of yours. search for the name Biblioteca Jose Marti an there I suppose they have the info of the books relating the mig-29 an other planes that are in there. though you have to come to Cuba to read thous. I'm guessing you don't know russian but you can find some one who can translate for you. The other info is in sites of russian language and the info in english is not always complete. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fartofwar.ru%2Fz%2Fzampini_d_f%2Ftext_0580.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 A bad translation but... http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/3-2007/ic/article2/ http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080229/100357673.html and in english the most trusted one are Jane's Information Global Security there are other. Shinigami Out... Edited April 11, 2011 by Shinigami La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 (edited) The other info is in sites of russian language and the info in english is not always complete. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fartofwar.ru%2Fz%2Fzampini_d_f%2Ftext_0580.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 A bad translation but... ... and you complain about reading US propaganda :) No F-15's or F-18's were hit over Kosovo, and the only F-16 that was confirmed to be hit was downed by a SAM. The F-117 was downed by an SA-3, not a MiG. The MiGs never hit anything in that conflict. Jane's Information Global Security there are other. Shinigami Out...I prefer service manuals; then you find out just how trusted a lot of these sites are. We even have missile exmployment charts and fire control operation. ;) I strongly suggest finding much more robust sources for your thesis. Edited April 11, 2011 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Frostie Posted April 11, 2011 Posted April 11, 2011 None of the above. I wish to fly MiG-31M :) Negative, i'll fly that sucker and you can be my RIO'ski. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
GGTharos Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Russian top gun? Wouldn't you need Su-33's? :D Negative, i'll fly that sucker and you can be my RIO'ski. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ФрогФут Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Who needs that brick, if we have THIS? "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты.
sobek Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I'll take Ethereals crop-duster over this :D Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
hassata Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Who needs that brick, if we have THIS? The DCS A-10 pilot looks more realistic than the guy flying this plane. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
RIPTIDE Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 MiG Strong!!! Can anyone find that iconic photo Mustang posted a while back? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
RIPTIDE Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 The other info is in sites of russian language and the info in english is not always complete. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fartofwar.ru%2Fz%2Fzampini_d_f%2Ftext_0580.shtml&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8 A bad translation but... . Listen. Its not the translation that is the problem. The F-117 was shot down by a sam. The name of the Sam battery commander is well known and has been widely published. While I appreciate that every side to every conflict likes to obfuscate the details of their losses and very often their victories, your source here has gone overboard to the point of absurdity. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shinigami Posted April 12, 2011 Author Posted April 12, 2011 Listen. Its not the translation that is the problem. The F-117 was shot down by a sam. The name of the Sam battery commander is well known and has been widely published. While I appreciate that every side to every conflict likes to obfuscate the details of their losses and very often their victories, your source here has gone overboard to the point of absurdity. Sorry that's my bad is a page that I was reading and it was on the clipboard when I posted the info and i just copied without knowing. That's not the one sorry:D Also were is the guy that alway come and say that the F-117 is impossible to shotdown.... La guerra, asi como es madrastra de los cobardes, es madre de los valientes. Cervantes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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