Can't get TGP to look at TAD SPI

[GunSlingerAUS]

Hey guys

 

I'm trying to master the basics of weaponry delivery - after having read the manual and done all the training missions twice, I'm still struggling. Here's my latest issue.

 

I'm trying to follow the procedure on page 508 of the manual, which describes how to use the TAD to set an SPI, then getting the TGP to focus on the SPI. Here's what happens when I do this (I'm flying the Weapons Training singleplayer mission included with the game, in the missions section):

 

1.) Active pause after waypoint 1, heading towards the soft targets waypoint 2.

2.) Turn off map on TAD, as I find it too cluttered with it enabled.

3.) Use throttle to slew TAD cursor over waypoint 2.

4.) Hold TMS UP LONG to set TAD cursor as SPI.

5.) Hold China Hat Forward Long to slave TGP to SPI.

 

However, the TGP ends up looking miles away, up in the sky, rather than down on the ground at my SPI. I've attached my track file - any assistance would be hugely appreciated. I'm guessing there's a setting in my TAD that I haven't configured correctly...

tad spi fail.trk

[Phazon]

Your TAD cursor is "hooking" the waypoint, which means if you create a SPI it will be placed at the set altitude of that waypoint. To set the SPI at the ground you should move the TAD cursor just off the waypoint until it is no longer "hooked" (it won't display coordinate etc locations on the TAD anymore).

 

Edit: Try using the "None" profile on the TAD (its one of the top-right OSB buttons), from memory I think it declutters the TAD screen and hides waypoints so you can freely place your SPI without accidentally hooking something.

 

When you set the SPI it should now be placed on the ground. I've only just recently been using the TAD to set my SPIs and I've gotten it to work fine, as long as I keep the TAD cursor off waypoints so it uses the ground altitude.

[Kaiza]

Yep, just took a look at your track, your waypoint elevation is 9800'. You are doing everything right, the TGP is looking right on the WP, its just that its up in the sky.This is evident as the waypoint marker floating high in your HUD. You can modify the waypoint elevation in the waypoint page of the CDU.

 

I assume you are doing this as a bit of an exercise as you are probably aware you dont have to hook a waypoint on the TAD manually, you can just use TMS aft long to make your steerpoint the SPI and then china hat fwd long to slew? Hooking points on the TAD is most useful for JTAC data or hooking other flights mini SPIs.

 

Phazon are you sure you arent setting a markpoint on the TAD and then slewing to that? I didnt think setting a random point on the TAD as a SPI was possible, I thought you actually had to hook something.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Kaiza

[Phazon]

Yeah sorry you're right, I normally only use the TAD to designate SPI in combination with a target location given from JTAC so I got confused.

 

GunSlingerAus you will have to set a markpoint by pressing TMS Right Short after placing your TAD cursor on the area you want to set a SPI at, turn the rotary switch below the CDU to Markpoint mode to display markpoints on your TAD and then you can the use TAD to designate a SPI.

[GunSlingerAUS]

Awesome advice, thanks guys - Kaiza, I wasn't aware that I could just use TMS aft long to make steerpoint SPI, so that'll come in handy!

 

I'll fire up the mission again tomorrow and try your solutions. Once again, thank you so much for your help.

[Crescendo]

GunSlingerAUS, everyone has pretty much explained the problem you are having (the waypoint you are using as a SPI is actually in the air), as well as the best solution (markpoints).

 

Here is a step-by-step procedure for creating a ground-level markpoint which you can slave the TGP to:

 

1. Set the TAD as SOI.

2. Slew the TAD cursor until it is exactly in the center of the WP of interest.

3. Create a markpoint using TMS Right Short (TMS R S). The markpoint will be created at ground level wherever the TAD cursor is positioned, in this case directly beneath the WP of interest.

4. Change the steerpoint (STPT) mode to markpoint using the AAP (toggle the knob) or UFC (press the FUNC key, then the MARK key). The TAD will now only be displaying whatever markpoints you have created. Remember that only one markpoint appears on the TAD at any one time, unlike a flightplan of waypoints. If you have created more than one markpoint you will have to cycle through them one by one to see each one on the TAD.

5. Hook the markpoint of interest with TMS F S.

6. Make the hooked markpoint SPI with TMS F L. Note that the SPI indicator in the bottom left corner of the HUD now says "TAD" (i.e. your current SPI has been set with the TAD).

7. Slave your sensors to the SPI using China Hat FWD Long (CH FWD L).

8. Your sensors (TGP, MAV, TDC etc.) will now all be 'looking' at the ground directly beneath the WP of interest.

9. You can now change the STPT mode back to Flight Plan using the AAP or UFC if you wish.

 

Remember that when you are in markpoint mode the currently selected markpoint is your STPT. Therefore you can alternately use the China Hat AFT Long (CH AFT L) command (slave TGP to STPT) to get the TGP looking at your markpoint without doing steps 5-9.

 

Note the difference between hooking and setting a markpoint as SPI with the TAD (hooked TAD object, in this case a ground-level markpoint, is SPI), and just using the newly created markpoint as a STPT and slaving the TGP to it immediately. It's worth understanding both methods, as you won't always need to create a markpoint - sometimes hooking and setting a correctly elevated TAD object as SPI will be sufficient (such as a JTAC tasking), in which case you won't need to mess around with markpoints.

 

By the way, here is a link to a thread where I made a post outlining the fundamentals of what a SPI actually is: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=73204

 

You may or may not find the aforementioned post useful depending on your level of knowledge, but it serves as a primer for the next link, which points to a thread about getting the TGP to look at the ground directly beneath a WP (essentially the problem you are having): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72925

Edited June 20, 2011 by Crescendo

[Kaiza]

With .0.9 it looks like your last markpoint will be displayed on the TAD so it gets even easier, you'll just be able to hook that!

[GunSlingerAUS]

Thanks Crescendo - will be firing up my baby tonight, and will use your step by step guide to bust some tanks! Once that's solved, time to find a good JTAC guide ;)

[GunSlingerAUS]

I tried Crescendo's guide and it worked beautifully. Thank you!

[Crescendo]

Happy to help. :thumbup:

[tangodownNZ]

GunSlingerAUS, everyone has pretty much explained the problem you are having (the waypoint you are using as a SPI is actually in the air), as well as the best solution (markpoints).

 

Here is a step-by-step procedure for creating a ground-level markpoint which you can slave the TGP to:

 

1. Set the TAD as SOI.

2. Slew the TAD cursor until it is exactly in the center of the WP of interest.

3. Create a markpoint using TMS Right Short (TMS R S). The markpoint will be created at ground level wherever the TAD cursor is positioned, in this case directly beneath the WP of interest.

4. Change the steerpoint (STPT) mode to markpoint using the AAP (toggle the knob) or UFC (press the FUNC key, then the MARK key). The TAD will now only be displaying whatever markpoints you have created. Remember that only one markpoint appears on the TAD at any one time, unlike a flightplan of waypoints. If you have created more than one markpoint you will have to cycle through them one by one to see each one on the TAD.

5. Hook the markpoint of interest with TMS F S.

6. Make the hooked markpoint SPI with TMS F L. Note that the SPI indicator in the bottom left corner of the HUD now says "TAD" (i.e. your current SPI has been set with the TAD).

7. Slave your sensors to the SPI using China Hat FWD Long (CH FWD L).

8. Your sensors (TGP, MAV, TDC etc.) will now all be 'looking' at the ground directly beneath the WP of interest.

9. You can now change the STPT mode back to Flight Plan using the AAP or UFC if you wish.

 

Remember that when you are in markpoint mode the currently selected markpoint is your STPT. Therefore you can alternately use the China Hat AFT Long (CH AFT L) command (slave TGP to STPT) to get the TGP looking at your markpoint without doing steps 5-9.

 

Note the difference between hooking and setting a markpoint as SPI with the TAD (hooked TAD object, in this case a ground-level markpoint, is SPI), and just using the newly created markpoint as a STPT and slaving the TGP to it immediately. It's worth understanding both methods, as you won't always need to create a markpoint - sometimes hooking and setting a correctly elevated TAD object as SPI will be sufficient (such as a JTAC tasking), in which case you won't need to mess around with markpoints.

 

By the way, here is a link to a thread where I made a post outlining the fundamentals of what a SPI actually is: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=73204

 

You may or may not find the aforementioned post useful depending on your level of knowledge, but it serves as a primer for the next link, which points to a thread about getting the TGP to look at the ground directly beneath a WP (essentially the problem you are having): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72925

 

Thanks for this it is helpful. However I am having the same issue and although this could work is there another way. I read further up the thread that you can change the elevation of the waypoint, but I dont really want to do this either.

 

Here's my problem. My target is at the stpt, the stpt is spi, so I slave all sensors to the spi but the tgp is looking at the steer point elevation up in space, not on the ground. Is there a simple way to change the spi to ground level at this point. Or the only way is already stated here.

 

Thank you for the answers already given here.

Edited November 4, 2017 by tangodownNZ

[tangodownNZ]

Is there a way to know the elevation of the SPI before we get to the SPI. So we can check if its at ground level or in the air.

 

Thanks again