Tips for F-15 vs Su-27 online guns only

[flyICE]

I flew F-15 and I can routinely win DACT guns only mission 1xF-15 vs 2xSu-27 within in 3-5 minutes. It was always great fun.

 

Well, last night was my first time playing dogfight online and I was totally owned by those Flanker guys. I need to be better, no question about that, but I also wonder is it true that F-15 is at disadvantage in general when playing online against Su-27 (guns only)? If so then I just give up since I don't have time to get over this. If not then I'll stick with F-15 and make myself better. Comparing to the AI, those Flanker guys online were brutally unforgiving...

 

I saw couple times a player fighting smoke on, does that mean that he considers himself so good that he's purposely giving opponents some advantages?

 

Any you guys have any tips for online gunzos that'll be greatly appreciated... :helpsmilie:

[EtherealN]

The obvious one is to always always keep a good eye on your energy. If you get slow with the F-15 while BFMing a Flanker, you are pretty much dead. 450 knots is roughly where you want to be to keep rating your nose.

[GGTharos]

I also wonder is it true that F-15 is at disadvantage in general when playing online against Su-27 (guns only)?

 

Yes and no. The answer is quite complex. In general you're at a disadvantage in the F-15 vs the Su-27, because the latter tends to turn better. The F-15 climbs better, but that fact is more difficult to take advantage of - winning turns is simpler/easier/more intuitive.

 

Tips won't get you anywhere. You have to study BFM in general and your DACT specifically. The guys you're fighting might be fairly experienced as well, in which case you can expect a long road to beating them.

[flyICE]

Thank you both for the replies! I certainly need to learn a lot of new things to play online. I just studied the tracks and it seems that if I keep a good speed normally I had better fights. Later in the play I started to slow down to match those Flanker speeds and I was dying so much faster!

 

I knew there are no magic tips and those guys I was fighting with are definitely very good. I don't even have a goal to beat them, just want to win a few out of ten gunzos. :D

[Cali]

Practice a lot and you'll be able to hold your own against the 27's. It all depends on the pilot in the other jet as well. Many 15 pilots do very well against 27's. The other night I got close to a 33 and had to run tail, cause he was at a better position then me. If the table were turned he would of been a dead bird. Set up and position is a big advantage when you are going to merge.

 

EDIT: Also online is where you really see how good people are and test your skills.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Cali

[FLANKERATOR]

Historically speaking, the F-15 has won all past official titles in FC series when it comes to 1vs1 or 2vs2 "Guns Only" matches (Fortis Dogfight cup, Lowland Tiger Meet, Flight Deck TCL tournament to name a few).

 

Best sticks flew F-15's to win these competitions.

 

Su-27=Angles=Aggressiveness vs Greed=> The Dark Side of the Force

F-15= Energy= Patience vs Fear=> The Light Side of the Force :D

[ААК]

Su-27 - a good turn

F-15 - a good climb

F-15 might lead to the Su-27 high altitude and try to attack through the benefits of climb. But it can end a frontal attack, and defeat the one who shoots more accurately. Do it on F-15 will only experienced pilot.

F-15 lose to bend the Su-27

Modern fighter aircraft designed for combat in the light of short-range missiles. In this battle, better turn such aircraft as the Su-27 and F-16.

If real fights were just on guns, the Su-27 would remove all the equipment you need not, and it would be an excellent rate of climb :)

 

Sorry for my English, it Google translator :)

Edited July 11, 2011 by ААК

[GGTharos]

And it would still have half the rate of climb of F-15 above 6000m. ;)

 

If real fights were just on guns, the Su-27 would remove all the equipment you need not, and it would be an excellent rate of climb :)

[GGTharos]

Factually incorrect.

[GGTharos]

Vertical separation is turning room, and the F-15 can make it such that the flanker doesn't even get to enter that turn circle. It all depends on who's doing what. If you know how to climb the F-15, there's nothing that the Su-27 can do to take the turning room away. It simply can't hang with you, and you can get enough separation to gain a snapshot and then exit to try again.

And if you know how to dive that F-15, there's no wasted energy either. The whole idea behind energy fighting is that you have/can maintain more energy than the other guy. The F-15 is the energy fighter in a 15/27 match.

Edited July 11, 2011 by GGTharos

[EtherealN]

The 27Pilots only goal is to involve the 15 in a high altitude CLOSE SLOW fight...Why? ..because this is where the 27 dominates.

 

And the 15 pilot won't oblige. So... ;)

[EtherealN]

So the Flanker, in this case, gets the options because the F-15 obliges, and...

...what if the Flanker obliges the wishes of the 15?

 

All you've said is that if Plane A surrenders itself to the strenghts of Plane B it will lose, which is classified as obvious. ;)

 

You are describing things that have been obvious since P-47's first met Me-109's.

(Well, technically, this was worked out as early as WW1, but I'm foggy about the tactics in that era and couldn't specify the planes.)

[EtherealN]

But if the thing that went up went up because it had more thrust all the way through, it has more energy, and can use said energy throughout the fight - that is, it'll go up, gather energy, maneuver vertically to cut inside, snapshot you, and through constantly having the thrust advantage it'll still be the faster one... It'll then repeat the maneuver until the victim is dead.

 

...or decide to just leave it be and disengage.

 

The Flanker does not have any of these possibilities. It can try to drag the 15 into a pure turning fight and of course win there, but it cannot disengage, and if the 15 doesn't want the turning fight... It's in trouble.

 

Now, in FC2 online most 15 players (including myself) aren't good enough to dominate the 27 in this manner, but if we are talking about the platform itself it really is a case of whichever pilot happens to be better at tricking the enemy to play in their domain.

[Cali]

It depends on the pilots, they might make the mistake of falling for the other guys strength. We can go on forever saying what if, but that's just that and nothing else. Online gun fights are not scripted like gun matches. That means they are not always "hey the bandit is coming at me" unless you are playing in a guns only server. If you are flying in a normal server then gun fights are a surprise. And however has the upper hand normal wins.

[Cali]

I was in a missile fight with a 33 a few days ago that ended up with him surprising me by passing at my 1-2 o'clock low. I saw he had the advantage on me and I hit AB and ran away. Good thing I had about 9k of fuel. He chased me and fired a few missiles but I was mach 1+ and a few miles in front of him (not sure how far back he was) Anyway his missiles missed and I lived to fight another day. I might of been able to kill him, but I saw that he had a slight advantage and decided not to push it.

[GGTharos]

That's the typical thing you do with flankers, yep ... on the F-15 end, a lot of them like to black out by doing the exact same thing.

[Cali]

I don't know how hard he turned, but I wasn't going to find out :D. All I know is that he did fire missiles at me, but they never hit. So I'm guessing he turned hard lost speed and distance....which allowed me to run away.

[ААК]

And it would still have half the rate of climb of F-15 above 6000m.

I think not. P-42 does not exceed :P

[GGTharos]

P-42 is a prototype aircraft with special modifications. The front-line combat aircraft Su-27S has HALF the climb rate of the F-15C above 6000m. This may change now that SM1/3 is upgrading the engines, but the F-15 is getting upgrades as well.

[RIPTIDE]

I love these discussions.

[Adder1606688006]

Ok guys I need help. Yesterday I was flying the 15 and got into a knife fight with my opponent, who put me down fast. He was flying the 25 and used an r-60m, how do i avoid this happening in the future?? :helpsmilie:

[Cali]

Ok guys I need help. Yesterday I was flying the 15 and got into a knife fight with my opponent, who put me down fast. He was flying the 25 and used an r-60m, how do i avoid this happening in the future?? :helpsmilie:

 

How did you not see him from miles and miles away? Where you flying low in the hills? You should of been able to zoom up above him, spiting out flares to decoy that r-60/73 and hope that they work. I have never heard of a 25 killing a fighter like that, unless they surprised it.

[FLANKERATOR]

I don't know how hard he turned, but I wasn't going to find out :D. All I know is that he did fire missiles at me, but they never hit. So I'm guessing he turned hard lost speed and distance....which allowed me to run away.

 

:thumbup: I like that...live to fight another day, not an easy choice to make, common reaction would be pulling on the stick with the tongue out on the side while holding breath, looking for that so desired "KILL" :D

[Cali]

I'd rather land back at base then try to be Rambo.

[flyICE]

I love these discussions.

 

me too! As the one who opened this post I'm VERY satisfied... :D