pitbull Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 guys, i'm debating now if you should go Leo BU0836X or the X-keys. -Leo's wiring is simple, with the X version. -The non X is a PITA with the Matrix build -X-Keys is not seen as a controller, but rather as keyboard emulator -X-Keys has 128 inputs (almost twice as much as Leo, for cheaper) breakout board supplied by CAT. easy there too. I would to know issues and good points from you guys that used these products. I, myself, used Leo's BU0836, and used a Matrix, and that was painful. But I like the fact that it is seen as a controller. I figuered that with 3 (maybe 4) 0836x, I should get most of my swicthes covered, as opposed to the X-Keys.. $ is not an that big of issue here, as my time wasted on trying to make this stuff is $ too. It`s a balance between $ spent on the right product and time spent on trying to tie it all together in the sim....:helpsmilie: Pitbull MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
PanelBuilder Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Also might want to have a look at Hagstrom: http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/products/modules.html Cheers, Colin
brydling Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) If there is enough people interested, I may produce some PCB's for my joystick cards and sell them with components as a DIY-kit. However PCB's are pretty expensive if you order less than 10 pcs. The wiring of the switches to my board is like OpenCockpits' Master Card. It is somewhere between BU0836 and BU0836X. You will still need a diode for each switch. However, every input has it's own pin in the connector. The inputs are divided into groups. Each group has 15 inputs and 1 common. I don't know how to explain because I don't know which level you are at. Just ask if you are interested. There is a total of 240 inputs and it shows up as two game controllers. Based on my experiences, I would not use a keyboard emulator. I think BU0836X or another "joystick emulator" is the way to go. Edited August 16, 2011 by brydling Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
CyBerkut Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Pitbull, it appears you would rather avoid extra complication (can't blame you there!), but just in case this is enough to overcome that for you, or anyone else here... you might want to check out jimbop's matrixing of a BU0836X card. End result: A boatload of inputs from a single card that is seen as a controller. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3343731/More_inputs_by_matrixing_BU038.html [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There's no place like 127.0.0.1
pitbull Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Also might want to have a look at Hagstrom: http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/products/modules.html Cheers, Colin Very nice but pricey, viable option though. I like the fact that you have a lot of inputs with 1 card as opposed to Leo... If there is enough people interested, I may produce some PCB's for my joystick cards and sell them with components as a DIY-kit. However PCB's are pretty expensive if you order less than 10 pcs. The wiring of the switches to my board is like OpenCockpits' Master Card. It is somewhere between BU0836 and BU0836X. You will still need a diode for each switch. However, every input has it's own pin in the connector. The inputs are divided into groups. Each group has 15 inputs and 1 common. I don't know how to explain because I don't know which level you are at. Just ask if you are interested. There is a total of 240 inputs and it shows up as two game controllers. Based on my experiences, I would not use a keyboard emulator. I think BU0836X or another "joystick emulator" is the way to go. So every group has 15 inputs and 1 common ground right? How are the connection made?? 0.1" headers? Very, very, interesting... is anybody else interested in this??? Pitbull, it appears you would rather avoid extra complication (can't blame you there!), but just in case this is enough to overcome that for you, or anyone else here... you might want to check out jimbop's matrixing of a BU0836X card. End result: A boatload of inputs from a single card that is seen as a controller. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3343731/More_inputs_by_matrixing_BU038.html Wow, that is very impressive. seems like tedious work but it's still a viable option though MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
brydling Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Pitbull, it appears you would rather avoid extra complication (can't blame you there!), but just in case this is enough to overcome that for you, or anyone else here... you might want to check out jimbop's matrixing of a BU0836X card. End result: A boatload of inputs from a single card that is seen as a controller. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3343731/More_inputs_by_matrixing_BU038.html Interesting solution. However I think you have to "convert" the BU0836 to a keyboard emulator (in PC software) to make it work, since I don't think all simulators will let you map combinations of joystick buttons. And even if they do, you would still have the same problem as with a keyboard emulator. That is, you can get into trouble while pressing two buttons simultaneously. /Niclas Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
brydling Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 So every group has 15 inputs and 1 common ground right? How are the connection made?? 0.1" headers? Very, very, interesting... is anybody else interested in this??? Exactly. Each common can be found on five pins, so if you spread the inputs in the group evenly between them, you will have to connect three switches to the same common-pin. The connectors are the same as the IDE-connectors in your computer. 2x20 pin, 0.1", flat cable receptacles. The card has eight of these connectors. Each row (two rows in each connector) have 15 input pins and 5 common pins. The commons are not really GND, so you can't wire your switches to GND or to a common in another group, you have to wire the switches to the common in the same group as the input the switch goes to. /Niclas Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
HitchHikingFlatlander Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I went with the X-Keys because it had more inputs. I'm going to be getting a Leo Bodnar or alternative too since I have to rewire my saitek rudder pedals (they are fried). There is a company that makes something very similar to the Leo X board for a bit cheaper. I can't remember the site though, Cat 101 probably will remember or one of the DCS guys. http://dcs-mercenaries.com/ USA Squad
Gadroc Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 X-Keys also has an SDK which looks like it could be run in Software mode. I'm exploring possibly supporting it in Helios. This would let you bind with out keyboard emulation at all.
pitbull Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 Stupid q: Is it easy to find the inserts that fits in connector that fit is the 2x20??? I have some basic electronic knowledge, and my slodering skill has obviously improved after I manage to pull off a 8x8 matrix... :). I'm lacking knowledge on what parts is avail for the customer in this century... MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
pitbull Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 post deleted, double entry MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
pitbull Posted August 16, 2011 Author Posted August 16, 2011 X-Keys also has an SDK which looks like it could be run in Software mode. I'm exploring possibly supporting it in Helios. This would let you bind with out keyboard emulation at all. That would an excellent solution, cheap and easy. MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
brydling Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 It is easy to find, and most people could probably buy them cheaper than me since I live in Sweden. But if someone thinks it is a problem, I could include eight connectors and a bit of flat-cable. You only need about 10 cm of flat cable for each connector since you probably want to split them up and lengthen them individually anyway. Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
pitbull Posted August 17, 2011 Author Posted August 17, 2011 Good!!! thanks all for all the advises and links. . I will give myself a few days to sleep on it. MOBO ASUS P5QL-Pro, Intel Q9550 2.8Ghz @ 3.5 GHZ, 8GB DDR2 Crucial, XFX HD6950, TM Warthog, TIR4 /w Pro-Clip, 24 In Samsung Syncmaster LED, 2 X Cheapo 8in LCD's for MFD's and TM MFCD's attached to it, Windows 7 Ultimate x64.
brydling Posted August 17, 2011 Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I have calculated a little bit to make up two examples. If we get to a total of 5 cards the cost for each would be 120 USD + shipping. If we get to a total of 10 cards the cost for each would be 94 USD + shipping. This is including the female connectors with 10 cm of flat cable attached to each one of them (about 11 USD in total). Not including connectors for the analog inputs (regular 0.1" pin headers). The current state is: wilcox has shown interest in one card and will ask some of his friends too. I would happily buy 3-5 myself depending on the final cost. I can probably sell them later anyway if we don't need them at NovelAir. It's always easier to sell when you already have them and know exactly what they cost. So, we're currently at 4. Also, expect up to 5 weeks lead time. It will take me a week to finish the CAD (want to change it a bit if the cards are going to be sold), it will take three weeks for the producer of the PCB's and it will probably take at least a week to ship around the world. The cards are currently 100x160 mm in size. I might shrink them one or a few cm in both directions when tuning the CAD. /Niclas Edited August 17, 2011 by brydling Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
CubPilot Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 I went with the X-Keys because it had more inputs. I'm going to be getting a Leo Bodnar or alternative too since I have to rewire my saitek rudder pedals (they are fried). There is a company that makes something very similar to the Leo X board for a bit cheaper. I can't remember the site though, Cat 101 probably will remember or one of the DCS guys. Groovy Game Gear makes a USB card very similar to Leo's. :pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win7 Pro 64 | Asus Rampage III Extreme |Swiftech H2O cooled: CPU, Video, N. Bridge | i7 980X EE @4.5GHz | 16 GB DDR3 @1726 MHZ | AMD R9 290X 4GB DDR5 +EK H2O block+Backplate | BenQ XL2730Z 2560x1440 @144Hz | Samsung 850 EVO SSD 500GB | 2 - Samsung HD 1TB | Pinoeer BD-RW | ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Audio | CoolerMaster Haf-X case | PC Power & Cooling Silencer 760W PS | HOTAS Cougar w/Evenstrain Mod | HOTAS Warthog | TM RCS Rudders + Mods | TM MFD's w/monitors | TrackIR5
HitchHikingFlatlander Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 That's the one thank you. I knew it was an off the wall name............ http://dcs-mercenaries.com/ USA Squad
brydling Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) We are at six cards now. I have just finished tuning the CAD. It now has 256 inputs instead of 240. There are 16 inputs in each group and 8 groups. Since the extra input in each group needed a pin, the common in each group is now only multiplied to four pins instead of five. The size have also been reduced to 90x150 mm. I have ordered a prototype that probably will arrive in 2-3 weeks. When it arrives, I will update the firmware to support the extra 16 inputs. Then I will order your cards when I have finished and verified my design. Therefore the time before they are ready for shipping will be delayed by 3-4 weeks (if the shipping company is as fast as they say). The card is firmware-upgradeable over USB, so I will maybe extend the feature list in the future. The first thing I am thinking about is rotary encoder support. The second thing is filtering of the analog axis inputs. /Niclas Edited August 19, 2011 by brydling Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
CyBerkut Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Interesting solution. However I think you have to "convert" the BU0836 to a keyboard emulator (in PC software) to make it work, since I don't think all simulators will let you map combinations of joystick buttons. And even if they do, you would still have the same problem as with a keyboard emulator. That is, you can get into trouble while pressing two buttons simultaneously. /Niclas I don't know, without re-reading his thread. Would that conversion preclude use of analog (ie. joystick axis) inputs? As I recall, his project still has joystick axis inputs, etc. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There's no place like 127.0.0.1
brydling Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) I don't know, without re-reading his thread. Would that conversion preclude use of analog (ie. joystick axis) inputs? As I recall, his project still has joystick axis inputs, etc. No it wouldn't. It would probably be some software that takes the joystick button presses and convert them to keyboard presses. They joystick would probably still work as normal if you map it directly in-game without using the keyboard emulation. I think his solution seems a little bit hard to use. Let's say you have a card with 3 inputs and you do the same thing, a board that let's you make all three different combinations of them. B1-B2, B1-B3 and B2-B3. Let's say now that you want to send the command "ctrl+g", so you set B1 to send "ctrl" and B2 to send 'g'. Now the next combination (B1-B3) is locked to having 'ctrl' as one of the buttons, and the last combination (B2-B3) is locked to having 'g' as one of the buttons. It just seems like it would be hard to fully utilize all the inputs. Of course you could change all the keyboard mappings in-game, then it would be no problem. If the game supports combinations like "a+f" that is.. I don't think it will. If the game only supports ctrl, shift and alt as modifiers then you can put them on the three first inputs, and then utilize all the combinations that include one of these. But not the rest of the combinations. I hope someone was able to follow.. :) /Niclas Edited August 20, 2011 by brydling Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
brydling Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 (edited) We are now at eight cards. Just noticed that the company that make the PCB's are having a vacation until 1 september, so the prototype will be delayed more. Expect final delivery around beginning of november if you live outside Sweden. /Niclas Edited August 21, 2011 by brydling Digital-to-Synchro converter for interfacing real aircraft instruments - Thread Check out my High Input Count Joystick Controller for cockpit builders, with support for 248 switches, 2 POV hats and 13 analog axes. Over 60 units sold. - B256A13 www.novelair.com - The world's most realistic flight simulators of the J35J Draken and the AJS37 Viggen.
Recommended Posts