Mike Powell Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 I've been considering how I might build the panel support structure for an A-10C MIP. Since the real structure is essentially a lattice of bars, I'm looking very closely at using aluminum bar stock. My goal is to create a design that closely follows the dimensions of the real MIP, but is adapted to using slightly oversized displays for the MFCDs. I started by developing a drawing which combined the required panel cutouts for all the instruments and subpanels. For each element I added an orange dimension representing the depth of the structure for that area. I then boxed in each area with virtual 0.125" bars of a width equal to that depth. That gave me a 3d rendering of the resulting lattice structure. All in all, I figure it's not too shabby, though clearly it's distorted relative to the real panel structure to accommodate the larger MFCD displays. For this design iteration I'm using a 8" LCD monitor with 800 x 600 resolution. I may move away from this choice, but the next smaller size falls far short, so maybe not. I'm about to test the suitability of epoxy for holding this together. I've had good success using epoxy and steel structures. The trick has been to assure that the load tends to push joints together and that the epoxy adds stability rather than taking the full load. That's won't be possible with all the joints here, but I think I will have enough long pieces passing through notches in others such that the overall structure will be quite strong. I've used filled epoxies like JB Weld and PC17 putty to good effect to build substantial fillets that gusset the joint. I'll do the same here, plus I'll embed an internally threaded metal spacer to provide attachment points for the instruments and subpanels. My next step is making a proof of concept prototype which supports one or two instruments. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
y2kiah Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 this looks like a good idea I think it will work out well. the only thing I would do different is maybe use some extruded aluminum gusset like this and fill with jb weld instead of trying to build them up from nothing. An 8.4" screen is the minimum you'll want for a true 5x5 screen area. That size will fit as long as you leave cutout space for overflow above each MFCD. This shows the fit of an 8.4".
Avilator Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 ***Snipped for brevity*** How are you going to ensure that the spacers will remain in the proper locations while the epoxy sets? I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
Mike Powell Posted September 24, 2011 Author Posted September 24, 2011 Y2kiah, thanks. I'll look into the 8020 material. The threaded spacers I'm thinking of using are an inch long. I was considering using some sort of metal gusset for the bar elements wider than an inch. Also thanks for the LCD information. I will be looking more closely at MFCD options before I start building. I need to find an accurate drawing of the real MFCD. What I have currently is a drawing of the smaller F-16 MFD. Avilator, to hold the threaded spacers I'll use a hole template with the spacers mounted on it. The assembly work will progress in small stages. I'll use just enough epoxy to hold the bars in place for one or two openings. Once they are stable, I position the template with the spacers for an opening and epoxy them in place. It will be a slow process. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Avilator Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Ah ok, that makes sense. I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
HitchHikingFlatlander Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Wow that's an extremely helpful drawing/render Mike, even if nothing more than for reference. If I end re-making my front console/panel I'll definitely being using this as a guide! Never ceases to amaze me how awesome the pit building community is. http://dcs-mercenaries.com/ USA Squad
Mike Powell Posted September 25, 2011 Author Posted September 25, 2011 Wow that's an extremely helpful drawing/render Mike, even if nothing more than for reference. If I end re-making my front console/panel I'll definitely being using this as a guide! Never ceases to amaze me how awesome the pit building community is. Thanks! Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Mike Powell Posted September 25, 2011 Author Posted September 25, 2011 I built a two cell lattice to test the epoxy and aluminum bar MIP structure concept. One cell is for a round body 3.25" instrument while the other is for a square body instrument. The mounting holes for the square body instrument are so close to the corners that I had to slightly file the threaded spacers to get them to fit properly. The holes for the round body instrument are far enough from the corners that I could add aluminum angle which substantially increased the strength of the lattice. (I didn't bother adding spacers to this cell as I had already tested that in the other cell.) The positions of most mounting holes for instruments and sub-panels in the A-10C MIP leave enough room for adding 1/16" x 1/2" x 1/2" angle to each corner. I will probably do so. I can't break the test piece bare handed, though If I jumped on it at the right angle I probably could. In any case, the concept seems a good one which I expect will scale nicely to full MIP proportions. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
TulsA-10 Posted September 26, 2011 Posted September 26, 2011 Huge weight savings over mdf or plywood " I'm gonna have to be taking your car today. See I have some top secret clown business that supersedes any plans that you might have for this here vehicle."
Mike Powell Posted October 1, 2011 Author Posted October 1, 2011 I made a few refinements, and ordered some aluminum. What surprised me is that it's far cheaper to order from Onlinemetals in Seattle than it is to buy the stuff from a local home building supply store. Including shipping and additional material for jigging the pieces while the epoxy cures, I've spent only $65 so far. I still have to buy the threaded spacers and a chunk of ply or MDF for a work surface. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
avlolga Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Hi Mike, great work , looking forward for any progress, and for dimension too. got your book - i love it !!!
Mike Powell Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Thank you. The aluminum I ordered is scheduled for delivery this coming Monday. I have some house projects to work on as well, but should begin making progress on the MIP structure next week even if it's slow. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Mike Powell Posted October 27, 2011 Author Posted October 27, 2011 Well, I got the house projects under control, the aluminum arrived, and I was able to get the majority of the pieces cut. I expect to start building the frame tomorrow. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Gadroc Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Excellent. Can't wait to see it come together.
Mike Powell Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 This is more time consuming than I expected, but it's beginning to look real. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
avlolga Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Mike, look promising :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Mike Powell Posted November 7, 2011 Author Posted November 7, 2011 I need to make the perimeter pieces now. They have bends in them and might be a bit more difficult than the pieces so far. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
Mike Powell Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 A few tweaks and a lot a clean up remain, but I'm about ready to start adding sheet metal. Mike Powell www.mikesflightdeck.com www.mikesflightdeckbooks.com
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