Autopilot Route Navigation

[DocW]

Hi there.

 

I do not manage to get the autopilot follow any waypoints.

 

What I did:

 

I set up a mission with 6 WP from Airfield one (WP1) to airfield two (WP6).

I let auto-start the Helicopter, activate the second WP in the PVI and lift off. I do a hover check, point the nose to my second waypoint, gather some height and speed (below 200 km/h) trim everything out and activate route mode (I can see the little lever on the cyclic move to route). I have the four autopilot/stability augmentation channels activated. I can see the little carret in the HUD.

 

- but the helo won't follow my WP. Most times, it will turn away from the waypoints. If I use DT (instead of DH), it will fly sometimes 90° off the track.

 

I also notice that sometimes the NAV ENR light will light, sometimes not. But it seems not to affect the ability of the helo to follow my points.

 

I hit the WP switch on the PVI, hit it again and enter another WP. The direction is not changed. At least not to the desired WP.

 

I listened to the tutorials from WALDO and the producer's notes. I cannot find what I am doing wrong.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Thank you.

 

Michael.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Could you post a track file?

[DocW]

Could you post a track file?

 

Thank you, Dark Eagle. Here we go:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/956hrcu5yon1zuy/Autopilot%20Enroute%20Test.trk

 

What happened. I start up the system, try a hover (yes, I need practice) , line up with the runway and enable WP 2. And ... much to my disbelief, the AP works as advertised.

 

But ... a short while after thing developed as followed:

 

On my way to WP 3 (in ABRIS), I realise that I have WP 2 (in PVI) activated and change that to WP 3. The helo goes out of control, I do a loop and I don't know how but after a time I am back on track, AP working again. Short before WP 3, I hit the trimmer because I wanted to change height, again the AP seems not to work anymore, I do another loop. What puzzles me is that the HUD WP marker is at the opposite side where the BS is banking to.

 

A short while later, I crash for know obvious reason. I would like to know why as well, since this happens very often to me.

 

Michael

Autopilot Enroute Test.trk

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hi there.

 

I do not manage to get the autopilot follow any waypoints.

 

What I did:

 

I set up a mission with 6 WP from Airfield one (WP1) to airfield two (WP6).

I let auto-start the Helicopter, activate the second WP in the PVI and lift off. I do a hover check, point the nose to my second waypoint, gather some height and speed (below 200 km/h) trim everything out and activate route mode (I can see the little lever on the cyclic move to route). I have the four autopilot/stability augmentation channels activated. I can see the little carret in the HUD.

 

- but the helo won't follow my WP. Most times, it will turn away from the waypoints. If I use DT (instead of DH), it will fly sometimes 90° off the track.

 

I also notice that sometimes the NAV ENR light will light, sometimes not. But it seems not to affect the ability of the helo to follow my points.

 

I hit the WP switch on the PVI, hit it again and enter another WP. The direction is not changed. At least not to the desired WP.

 

I listened to the tutorials from WALDO and the producer's notes. I cannot find what I am doing wrong.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Thank you.

 

Michael.

 

 

Hey Mike. Look, if you set a mission for 2 airfields, the first and last waypoints on the PVI are usually the legs and not the airfield themselves.

 

My modus operandi for engaging route mode:

 

1- Start up the aircraft, set INU and heat to on (back panel), set desired forward trim THEN engage autopilot Pitch and Bank hold modes ONLY, takeoff using runway (45-50 KIAS pitch for'ard, then pull back slightly to get a lift at 120-145 KIAS), then make a wide arc turn to: PVI-800 WPT button #1 (button 1)

 

2- THEN engage autopilot heading hold.

 

3- Maintain 180 - 200 KIAS on the HUD as airspeed.

4- THEN engage autopilot altitude hold (with preference to radar altimeter and not barometric)

 

5- Confirm I'm draining miles by pressing on PVI-800: DTA/DTO (the one to the right of self co-ordinates)

 

6- Start Route mode by pressing R once.

 

And before the mission flying, check the mission planner for PVI waypoint name (lowermost field on the waypoints tab)

 

If, for some reason, you wish to follow the route exactly, select Desired Track. If you want to just point and move the aircraft to the direction of a waypoint, use Desired Heading.

 

Also, make sure the PVI-800 has no messages on the Ekran system, for the INU fixtaking cumulates errors as a result of airframe vibrations, etc..

 

In case you get a PERFORM NAV FIX message on Ekran, two ways to update:

Fly-Over INU update

1. Set the Mode selector dial on the Navigation Control panel to the “ВВОД” (Edit) position.

2. Set “И-251В – ПРОЛ” (INU fix-taking method) switch to the “ПРОЛ” (INU "up") position.

3. Press “ОТ” (TP) push-light on the PVI-800 Nav panel

4. Select the TP number you wish to assign from the key pad (1…10).

5. Once above the target, press the “ЦУ” (Designate target) button on the cyclic and the helicopter‟s coordinates will be appear on the Navigation Control panel display. The “ОТ” (Target point) symbol will be displayed on the HUD.

6. Press the “ВВОД” (Enter) button on the Navigation Control panel a second time and the fly-over coordinates will be entered as a TP in the navigation system. The “ОТ” (Target point) symbol on the HUD will go out.

7. After creating the TP, set the Mode selector dial on the Navigation Control panel to the “РАБ” (Oper) position.

 

The second way is to use Shkval 251 update as follows:

 

Shkval Target Point Designation

1. Ensure that the “ИЗЛ-ОТКЛ” (Laser standby ON/OFF) switch on the Targeting Mode Controls panel is set to the “ИЗЛ” (Laser standby ON) position.

2. Set the Mode selector dial on the Navigation Control panel to the “ВВОД” (Edit) position.

3. Set the “И-251В – ПРОЛ” (INU fix-taking method) switch to the “И-251В” (Update "down") position.

4. Press the “ОТ” (Target point) push-light button.

5. Select the TP number you wish to assign from the key pad (1-10).

6. Press the “ЦУ” (Uncage Shkval) button on the cyclic.

7. Use the sensor slew hat to align the HUD cursor with target point area, and then locate it on the Shkval display.

8. Place the Shkval target box over the target point area, adjust the gate size and press the “АВТ ЗАХВ” (Automatic target lock) button on the collective. The range to target area will now be displayed on the TVM screen.

9. Press the “ЦУ” (Designate target) button on the cyclic a second time and the target‟s coordinates will appear on the Navigation Control panel display. The “ОТ” (Target point) symbol will display on the HUD.

10. Press the “ВВОД” (Enter) button on the Navigation Control panel again and the derived coordinates will be entered as the TP coordinates in the navigation system. The “ОТ” (Target point) symbol on the HUD will go out.

11. After creating this new TP, set the Mode selector dial on the Navigation Control panel to the “РАБ” (Edit) position. On the Targeting Mode Controls panel, press the “СБРОС” (Targeting mode reset) button.

 

 

 

 

Reminder: The above was target point designation. Actual INU fix update is done with Shkval

 

1- Lock on a ground object (house, chimney, etc)..

2- Ensure autotracking is visible, and laser rangefinder switch is set to Standby (left position)

3- Hide helmet mounted sight

4- On PVI-800 panel, set mode dial to (Oper), and INU update method to (update via shkval (down position))

5- Press INU update (button below WPT on PVI-800 panel)

6- Press 1-10 and check how many update points you got on the PVI-800

7- Press one of those update points (usually keys 1 and 2)

8- Press Designate target (O) on the keyboard

9- Now INU has been updated and the Ekran will remove the PERFORM NAV FIX

 

If you are not sure, post a track and I'll amend and give a track in return.

[DocW]

Ortho, you gave me quite something to chew on ... whoah.

 

Hey Mike. Look, if you set a mission for 2 airfields, the first and last waypoints on the PVI are usually the legs and not the airfield themselves.

 

So that's a most basic misunderstanding of mine. Thx.

 

My modus operandi for engaging route mode:

 

1- Start up the aircraft, set INU and heat to on (back panel), set desired forward trim THEN engage autopilot Pitch and Bank hold modes ONLY, takeoff using runway (45-50 KIAS pitch for'ard, then pull back slightly to get a lift at 120-145 KIAS), then make a wide arc turn to: PVI-800 WPT button #1 (button 1)

 

2- THEN engage autopilot heading hold.

 

3- Maintain 180 - 200 KIAS on the HUD as airspeed.

4- THEN engage autopilot altitude hold (with preference to radar altimeter and not barometric)

 

5- Confirm I'm draining miles by pressing on PVI-800: DTA/DTO (the one to the right of self co-ordinates)

 

6- Start Route mode by pressing R once.

 

 

This is exactly the kind of step by step correction I needed.

 

 

And before the mission flying, check the mission planner for PVI waypoint name (lowermost field on the waypoints tab)

 

not sure what that means, but I will work on it.

 

As for the EKRAN, I so far completely ignored it. Task saturation ... and the INU alignment stuff is another evening lesson for me.

 

What puzzles me is that the AP stuff seems not to work like in other sims, where you put it on and everything is on rails but it looks more like staying a constant zone of conditions you have to keep in so that the AP will assist you. Very impressive.

 

You advice very well appreciated,

 

Michael

 

P.S. I would still like to hear some comments on my track, if a kind soul still would care to watch it

[159th_Viper]

I'll watch your track in a wee while and let you know :)

 

 

Ortho, you gave me quite something to chew on ... whoah.

 

 

Here's what I do:

 

OK - You spawned in your Helo and performed a cold-start (auto) or runway start: Now I am assuming that you have your Flight Plan all set up prior to mission-start in the Mission Editor, said Flight Plan is now loaded in your Abris:

 

1 - Switch on Abris to Flight Plan (NAV/MAP/SCALE-+):

 

 

For cold-start, select WP1 on PVI

 

 

2 - Toggle the INU heading data selector switch to the Directional Gyro position (middle):

 

 

3 - Set the DH/DT switch on the Autopilot system to DT (Desired Track):

 

 

 

There you go: 3 to 4 simple steps and your Route Autopilot system is ready to be engaged. You now just need to get airborne and trim for the specific flight parameters that you want to fly the route at (speed and altitude).

 

Once you're comfortable with that, hit the 'R' button on your keyboard/Route switch on collective and the Kamov will fly the Pre-loaded route automatically:

 

 

Monitor your Overhead Panel Warning and Advisory Lamps as the route progresses:

 

 

 

 

Once route ends, you can select WP1 again or any other on the PVI and do it all over again:

 

 

Also be advised that at any time during the AP flight you can just hit 'R' and disengage the system, deviate from your route to investigate and once done, just hit 'R' and the Kamov will again automatically fly the Flight-Plan as before.

 

Lastly, utilise your collective to toggle your altitude as required.

 

Track attached to illustrate above principles: The moment I hit the 'R' button to begin the AP Route tracking mode I am hands-free for the entire flight apart from controlling the collective to set required altitude as necessary.

 

Autopilot Kamov.trk

Edited October 25, 2011 by 159th_Viper
Momentary return to Lucidity........

[159th_Viper]

....The helo goes out of control, I do a loop and I don't know how but after a time I am back on track, AP working again. Short before WP 3, I hit the trimmer because I wanted to change height, again the AP seems not to work anymore, I do another loop......A short while later, I crash for know obvious reason. I would like to know why as well, since this happens very often to me.

 

Are you utilizing the Central Position Trimmer Mode?

 

If so, that could very well explain the difficulty you are experiencing in that you have, once you've hit the trimmer button, a short amount of time within which to return your flight stick (one on your desk as opposed to the one in the virtual cockpit) to it's centre position. If you fail to do so timorously then you are effectively 'locked out' of your ability to control the flight-stick.

 

Seems to be the case here. Solution - just return to centre as soon as you've trimmed. Seems difficult at first, but with flight hours it will become second nature :)

 

 

P.S. I would still like to hear some comments on my track, if a kind soul still would care to watch it

 

 

Just a couple of points:

 

1 - When attending to the Hover Check, in particular the Hover mode stabilization (Auto-Hover), be 100% sure that the INS has aligned properly (indicative of Ground-Speed readout on top left of HUD). Failure to allow for INS alignment before engaging auto-hover results in a failure of the SAS, evident from the flashing dampener lights on the Autopilot panel.

 

In your track you attempted to trim afterwards too - that will not help at all as the dampener lights were all flashing. That said, you did a very good job of maintaining control until you switched the dampeners back on :)

 

2 - I cannot advise you to do so as it's merely a personal preference of mine, but flying with Altitude Hold off allows for a lot more freedom of movement as you are not fighting the SAS. Not a major issue, but if I were you I'd give it a try.

 

3 - Trim often and then trim again and again and again and then some. If you have not engaged the Autopilot Route mode then trim all the time. For every wee attitude adjustment, however small, trim.

 

4 - Be careful not to over-compensate: Manoeuvre, trim and wait for the Kamov to settle prior to manoeuvring again.

 

Whils the above may seem to be a wee bit of a ramble, I assure you it's not. Judging from your track, there's not much wrong with your skill. Rather maybe just a lack of understanding of some systems and the Kamov's inherent peculiarities which are all easily solved by Airtime :)

[DocW]

 

2 - Toggle the INU heading data selector switch to the Directional Gyro position (middle):

 

I missed that step. Not sure if it was set right by the auto start procedure, never checked that.

 

 

 

Are you utilizing the Central Position Trimmer Mode?

 

I don't think so. I use a Logitech 940 FF stick and set it up so that it stays in the trimmed position, as it should be in RL.

 

 

1 - When attending to the Hover Check, in particular the Hover mode stabilization (Auto-Hover), be 100% sure that the INS has aligned properly (indicative of Ground-Speed readout on top left of HUD). Failure to allow for INS alignment before engaging auto-hover results in a failure of the SAS, evident from the flashing dampener lights on the Autopilot panel.

 

Another very basic one I wouldn't have nailed in years.

 

Your posts is in two ways very encouraging: First the good teaching of relevant points, second the overwhelming helpfulness in making sure me getting my act together.

 

I've read that this board had a very good reputation, but that was way over my expectations.

 

Thank you, thank you and thank you.

 

 

Michael.

[159th_Viper]

Not a bother :)

[WildBillKelsoe]

I just watched your track and I have two observations:

 

1- Excessive forward tilt of blades during takeoff:

 

You only need to get little forward momentum on takeoff. Not this. Watch my track.

 

2- Rudder lock:

 

You locked your rudder to the left so the chopper points always to the right of the assigned heading. Ensure your rudder is centered.

 

After gaining desired airspeed, engage route mode after you've set PVI to waypoint 1. Check the track.

 

For adjustments to speed or altitude:

 

1- Speed adjustment:

 

 

• Turn off route mode.
  
• Trim aircraft as desired observing speed.
  
• During landing at high speed 200+, note how the Vertical velocity indicator never goes up( because with reducing speed, the helo goes up, so counter that with lowered collective.
  
• Then to resume autoflight, re-engage the route mode ®, and control altitude with collective control (as on the track).
  

2- Altitude:

 

 

• Through collective control, or if the en-route terrain is level, use autopilot channel for alt hold. Note in this track, the terrain wasnt all smooth all the way, so I disengage the alt hold and adjust altitude using collective control.
  

Now that I've watched your track, its your turn to watch mine.:book:

 

If you have further questions, I'd be happy to respond. :helpsmilie::smartass:

 

Also, I intentionally fired the entire ammo load of gun and rackettee (lol!) to show that the autopilot constantly corrects course deviations without cyclic intervention by the pilot.

[DocW]

2- Rudder lock:

 

You locked your rudder to the left so the chopper points always to the right of the assigned heading. Ensure your rudder is centered.

 

 

Good find ! Yes, I readjusted my rudder. It was way to sensitive.

 

 

 

Now that I've watched your track, its your turn to watch mine.:book:

 

I will happily and thankfully do this. SITREP tomorrow.

 

 

And by the way, you both Viper and Ortho, I flew the route two times this evening and it worked.

 

- that is so deeply satisfying when everything finally falls into place ...

 

Michael.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Glad it does, Mike. If you're interested in flying multiplayer, let me know. I'm flying on Thursday after I finish my exam.

[DocW]

Glad it does, Mike. If you're interested in flying multiplayer, let me know. I'm flying on Thursday after I finish my exam.

 

Watched your track. My comments:

 

1. Impressive airmanship. It is fun to watch you at the controls and to see the ease at which you flying over the switches. I now saw the light and will strive for that level.

2. I am relieved to learn that in terms of switchology the startup sequence can be altered at will.

3. Short of your control hover, you trim the bird on the ground? Never thought of that. Smart move.

4. Never was able to deploy weapons so fast and easy. I have to work on that, too.

 

 

Good luck with your exam !

About MP, why not.

 

Michael.

 

P.S.: You received clearance for 07, but used 25 ;o)

[WildBillKelsoe]

A correction in order:

 

To fix PERFORM NAV FIX Ekran message:

 

Coordinate Corrections Using Over-flight Method Once you are within 18 km of a reference point, the EKRAN will sound an audio cue and display “ПРОВЕДИ КОРРЕКЦ КООРД” (Perform Coordinates Correction). To perform the correction:

1. On the PVI-800, press the “ОР” (Fix point) push-light and this will light up the button.

2. Press the key on the PVI-800 keypad that corresponds to this reference point number; this number will be displayed on the small right window.

3. Set “И-251В – ПРОЛ” (I-251V Shkval – Fly over) switch to “ПРОЛ” (Fly over) on the PVI-800.

4. Visually locate the reference point, fly towards it, and once located exactly above it press the “ЦУ” (Uncage Shkval –designate target) button on the cyclic. This will set the current coordinates in the onboard navigation system to the reference coordinates.

Once the correction is complete, the “ОР” push-light and its number will no longer be lit.

 

 

Or by using:

 

 

 

Coordinate Corrections Using Shkval If a reference point is not located along the flight route it is recommended to perform corrections using the I-251V Shkval. To perform the correction:

1. On PVI-800 navigation control panel, press the “ОР” (Fix point) push-light which will light it up.

2. Press the key on the PVI-800 keypad that corresponds to this reference point number; this number will be displayed on the small right window.

 

3. Set “И-251В – ПРОЛ” (I-251V Shkval – Fly over) switch to “И-251В” (I-251V Shkval) on the PVI-800.

4. Visually locate the checkpoint on the terrain.

5. On the Targeting Mode Control Panel, set the “ИЗЛ – ОТКЛ” (Laser standby – Off) switch to “ИЗЛ” (Laser standby).

6. Press “ЦУ” (Uncage Shkval –designate target) on the cyclic (this will uncage the Shkval sensor).

7. Move the cursor over the reference point.

8. Adjust target tracking gate size to cover the reference point object and press the “АВТ ЗАХВ” (Auto-lock) button on the collective.

9. When the Shkval displays “ТА” (Autotracking), press “ЦУ” (Uncage Shkval –designate target) again on the cyclic. This will perform proper calculations to determine coordinate offset and store them in the navigation system as the helicopter‟s current coordinates.

During the calculation, the HUD will display the “КОРР” (Correction) message. Once the correction is complete, press the “СБРОС” (Reset) button on the Targeting Mode Control Panel, which will clear the “КОРР” (Correction) message from the HUD, turn off “ОР” (Fix point) and reference point number on the PVI-800 navigation panel, and cage the Shkval.

[WildBillKelsoe]

Watched your track. My comments:

 

1. Impressive airmanship. It is fun to watch you at the controls and to see the ease at which you flying over the switches. I now saw the light and will strive for that level.

2. I am relieved to learn that in terms of switchology the startup sequence can be altered at will.

3. Short of your control hover, you trim the bird on the ground? Never thought of that. Smart move.

4. Never was able to deploy weapons so fast and easy. I have to work on that, too.

 

 

Good luck with your exam !

About MP, why not.

 

Michael.

 

P.S.: You received clearance for 07, but used 25 ;o)

 

Thanks Mike! Indeed the sim allows for flexible startup in any way you choose. Also, my level is not advanced, because I'm still learning things so far till now. This is the beauty of this sim, you always open the pilot manual and will find you skipped a thing or two, and always drive you to boot the sim and fly.

 

By the way (lol@ switchology), but this was from extensive hours in the cockpit without a flying stick, mainly getting the baby going off!. Good luck and if you have any further questions, feel free to drop them here in the forum. Lots of good players and sim fans out here, and a great respectable community no less!. Cheers!

 

 

Oh, and for the runway number.. Well, who cares man!!! :D