Hitting targets in bad weather?

[Blacknemisis]

In stormy weather with low cloud coverage I tend to go below the coverage SOI & SPI my HUD and slay my TGP to it and search and destroy targets that way. Is there away to hit and find targets above cloud coverage or how do some of you guys handle it.

[Megagoth1702]

Of course mate! :)

 

Hit the HOTAS boat switch LEFT or RIGHT to set the TGP to FLIR black hot or white hot mode. Boat switch center sets it to "camera" mode again. :)

 

Absolutely no reason to go below cloud level with the TGP and the Maverick D, which have infra red cameras and are suitable for bad weather and night. Also the JDAM is a suitable weapon for bad weather since GPS does not take bad weather as badly as laser guided bombs do. :)

 

I wish you the best! You will feel like a beast having this discovered! Hehe. :)

Edited November 1, 2011 by Megagoth1702

[Speed]

Actually, in real life, IR is not magic and it cannot see through clouds. This is mostly-correct in the sim, as you will be unable to penetrate dense cloud cover.

 

This is no real way to acquire targets through clouds. Now in the sim, sometimes I've noticed clouds are a little or a lot too transparent in IR, but it's been a while since I noticed this so maybe they fixed it and clouds have become completely opaque in IR.

 

I'm not saying that IR can't penetrate better than visible light, it usually can, but real cloud cover you're just not going to penetrate without switching to RF (radio frequency). Hopefully the next DCS module includes an air to ground radar (if not, we'll be getting the yawn-tastic F-15C).

[GGTharos]

You can also drop bombs on coordinates if someone provides such to you.

 

In reality you can't necessarily expect accurate or effective delivery of ordnance under adverse conditions, and you should not expect to do so in the sim, either.

[Supersheep]

Or use JDAMS on known targets, as GPS does not care about weather (as soon as it does, you don't care about your targets anymore...).

Edit: Damn xD

 

 

Supersheep

Edited November 1, 2011 by Supersheep
sniped

[Speed]

You can also drop bombs on coordinates if someone provides such to you.

 

In reality you can't necessarily expect accurate or effective delivery of ordnance under adverse conditions, and you should not expect to do so in the sim, either.

 

In reality, you probably wouldn't expect to even fly the A-10 under adverse conditions, unless your target area was clear I guess. Doesn't keep us from making "drop JDAMs on coordinates during thunderstorm" missions though :)

[ralfidude]

Until the patch, you can cheat.

 

I have noticed that the TGP when in FLIR mode does not penetrate dense cloud cover, however, when you zoom all the way in, you WILL be able to penetrate through it sometimes.

 

Good luck!

[Megagoth1702]

Actually, in real life, IR is not magic and it cannot see through clouds. This is mostly-correct in the sim, as you will be unable to penetrate dense cloud cover.

 

This is no real way to acquire targets through clouds. Now in the sim, sometimes I've noticed clouds are a little or a lot too transparent in IR, but it's been a while since I noticed this so maybe they fixed it and clouds have become completely opaque in IR.

 

I'm not saying that IR can't penetrate better than visible light, it usually can, but real cloud cover you're just not going to penetrate without switching to RF (radio frequency). Hopefully the next DCS module includes an air to ground radar (if not, we'll be getting the yawn-tastic F-15C).

 

Actually, I noticed that today in the "the serpent head" mission. I could noot look through the clouds but it was kind of a thunderstorm down there so it was understandable. Thank you for clearing this up for me! :)

[pcalvert]

I'm a bit of a newbie, so please forgive me. Ever since EF2000 on DOS I've wanted to night missions in bad weather on a great sim. All the training videos and training lessons (on the sim) shows using the TGP with JDAM's (which seems to defeat the purpose) I'm practising at the moment using coords from JTAC to get an SPI for a target. Does anyone know of the best mission to try and use JDAMS in bad weather.. (I imagine you are sent coords from JTAC.... is that right? Or am I on completely the wrong track?

 

Thanks for your help! :)

[Supersheep]

Hi!

 

If you want to practice, you can make a mission with a target (a tank, say) that is stationary (gps is no use, otherwise) and set a waypoint on it.

 

I like to modify the very simple "Sitting Ducks" mission for these kind of training. Create Waypoints, insert a JTAC and change weather.

I will make you a quick one later.

 

I can also make you a track of one, however, I have not really worked with a JTAC yet.

If I get it done, you will see it here, if not, I will make a track of a "waypoint attack (not that difficult)

 

 

 

Supersheep

[pcalvert]

Cool - thanks Supersheep!

[topol-m]

I wonder why didn't they think of implementing a radar on the A-10, Apache Longbow has one, F-15E has one yet the Hog relies only on optical sensors, as a result it is heavily reliant on perfect visibility to be effective.

[Eddie]

I wonder why didn't they think of implementing a radar on the A-10, Apache Longbow has one, F-15E has one yet the Hog relies only on optical sensors, as a result it is heavily reliant on perfect visibility to be effective.

 

And where would they put this RADAR?

 

The hog was always designed as a low level CAS aircraft, a job which doesn't require RADAR.

[topol-m]

And where would they put this RADAR?

 

The hog was always designed as a low level CAS aircraft, a job which doesn't require RADAR.

 

They put a targeting pod that's bigger than the Longbow radar on it so I don't see how a similar sized radar can't be attached to the Hog.

The Apache is also providing CAS yet it benefits greatly from a radar.

[Eddie]

They put a targeting pod that's bigger than the Longbow radar on it so I don't see how a similar sized radar can't be attached to the Hog.

The Apache is also providing CAS yet it benefits greatly from a radar.

 

The Apache Longbow's RADAR is mainly intended for it's Interdiction/BAI role rather than CAS. And it's not used much in Afghanistan at all, in fact AFAIK the only Apache's flying in AFG with the RADAR are the UK ones. And that is simply because we don't consider it a removable system so it always stay on the aircraft.

 

But seriously, where would you fit the RADAR on the hog? With the GAU-8 and the AAR receptacle/associated fuel lines there is no room in the nose for a radome or all the LRIs that form part of a RADAR system.

 

And more importantly why would anyone pay to develop, produce, test, install on the aircraft and train the pilots on a system that has very limited uses in the CAS role. Even RADAR equipped aircraft need to aquire the target visually in most CAS situations.

 

A/G RADAR finds most of it's use on the Interdiction/BAI/Strike/SEAD side of A/G combat. And while Interdiction/BAI are roles in which the A-10 is employed, it doesn't need a RADAR to perform them.

[Eddie]

Oh, and the Longbow RADAR's radome might be smaller than the LITENING pod, but that doesn't mean the radar system is. There are a lot more avionics required for a RADAR than what is seen inside the radome.

[159th_Viper]

I wonder why didn't they think of implementing a radar on the A-10.....

 

One reason and one reason only:

 

That Big-A$$ed cannon does not need nor does it want and neither will it ever want or need a radar to function as it should :D

[topol-m]

Putting it in the nose is obviously not an option but I gave you the example of the targeting pod position, Apache's radar is not in the nose either. Now on the "it doesn't need" part, following that logic the A-10A also is doing CAS and it doesn't "need" the Litening II TGP to do it but with it it can do it much better right? The same goes for Apache A and D, and the F-15E which is also used for CAS, and in addition to the targeting pod it is using its radar. So it is not a question of need but a question of improving its capabilities. Whether someone will pay or not for such an upgrade is a different story especially in the current economic situation.

 

One reason and one reason only:

 

That Big-A$$ed cannon does not need nor does it want and neither will it ever want or need a radar to function as it should :D

 

Well TOR or Tunguska or Pantsir etc. etc. don't need nor care about your Gau-8 :D

Edited November 24, 2011 by topol-m

[Eddie]

Putting it in the nose is obviously not an option but I gave you the example of the targeting pod position, Apache's radar is not in the nose either. Now on the "it doesn't need" part, following that logic the A-10A also is doing CAS and it doesn't "need" the Litening II TGP to do it but with it it can do it much better right? The same goes for Apache A and D, and the F-15E which is also used for CAS, and in addition to the targeting pod it is using its radar. So it is not a question of need but a question of improving it's capabilities. Whether someone will pay or not for such an upgrade is a different story especially in the current economic situation.

 

So where would you put it then? And if a capability isn't needed, then no it isn't an improvement, it's an unnecessary system which adds weight, maintenance workload, and cost.

 

There are already plenty of aircraft that can bring ground mapping RADAR to the party if and when needed. There is no need whatsoever to stick a GMR to an aircraft that was never designed to have it.

 

The problems and downsides of such a system more than outweight any positives in the case of the A-10.

[topol-m]

So where would you put it then?

I'll put it next to the targeting pod for Christ's sake.

 

And if a capability isn't needed, then no it isn't an improvement, it's an unnecessary system which adds weight, maintenance workload, and cost.

Thank God they thought differently when they were making the A-10C or we would have gotten DCS A-10A instead.

 

There are already plenty of aircraft that can bring groun mapping RADAR to the party if and when needed. There is no need whatsoever to stick a GMR to an aircraft that was never designed to have it.

 

And when was the Apache designed to have one?

[159th_Viper]

Well TOR or Tunguska or Pantsir etc. etc. don't need nor care about your Gau-8 :D

 

Exactly - a Radar will not help against a Pantsir either. If I was an A10 pilot and a Greyhound lit me up, well then, RTB it is, tail between my legs. I'll let the pointy-noses take care of the Bogeyman :D

[Eddie]

I'll put it next to the targeting pod for Christ's sake.

 

Riiiiiiight. So you'll fit the radome into a pylon mountable pod, fine. What about all the other avionics to go with the radar antenna?

 

You don't seem to realise how many LRIs there are in a RADAR system. All told, the RADAR system in Typhoon (for example) weighs in at over 500kg if you include the Scanner (which is the only component you seem to have thought about) waveguides, processor, receiver, tranmitter, all the power supplies and ampifiers, and the wiring looms.

 

Fine, even if you could accomplish all that, why? What would it offer?

 

Thank God they thought differently when they were making the A-10C or we would have gotten DCS A-10A instead.

 

They didn't think differently at all. 'They' thought exactly the same way I do, which is why there is no RADAR in the A-10C.

 

And when was the Apache designed to have one?

 

The AH-64D was designed from the start to have the Longbow radar system.

 

At the end of the day, the USAF have never seen the need to bodge a RADAR into the A-10, that says all that needs to be said.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Eddie

[topol-m]

I'd prefer to sacrifice a hardpoint which would allow me all weather capabilities and through-the clouds target detection and attack. I might not always have the luxury of grounding the aircraft in hope for a suitable weather because they cannot operate effectively in the given conditions.

 

 

The AH-64D was designed from the start to have the Longbow radar system.

 

Precisely. The AH-64D was designed, and it is based on A which was not designed that way. Just like A-10A and C are not designed that way and a specific version could be designed to use a radar.

 

That comparison with the Typhoon's radar is unnecessary, A-10 won't need hundreds of km detection range. An AN/APG-78 sized radar will do fine.

Edited November 24, 2011 by topol-m

[159th_Viper]

I might not always have the luxury of grounding the aircraft in hope for a suitable weather because they cannot operate effectively in the given conditions.

 

That's the thing - the Americans do have that luxury. Bad weather? Send in the Strike Eagle or whatever else to get the job done. It's like saying yes, I have this stone. If I take this stick and tie it to the stone I'll have a hammer. Now why go through all that trouble if I can just reach over and use the claw-hammer I already have lying about in my toolbox?

Edited November 24, 2011 by 159th_Viper

[Torment]

Implement an E-8 into the sim. Easy fix...of course your targets would have to be moving...:disgust: