Electronic Map and Targeting

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I had a great idea to make LOFC2 (and possibly 3) much more capable. A major problem we have that the DCS titles do not is the capability for target data sharing. If the GPS coordinates can be exported through LUA this could work.

First thing would be to find a suitable map. This map should display in full on the monitor so that panning would not be necessary. The map would display your aircraft only (unless in a wing group, more on that later). This would show you exactly where YOU are located on the map but no one else. It would display your GPS coordinates on the bottom left hand side.

 

This is where it gets interesting.

 

For people that have the map but are not in your flight group use the manual mode. When you ask for the GPS location of a wingman you hit a start button. The start button starts a timer. He gives you his GPS location, heading, and speed. After you enter the speed you hit a stop button. It takes the time you took to enter the info and automatically adjust to show you his current location. This gives you the capability to know EXACTLY where your wingman is. After the map displays the location the software starts a five second timer. This gives you a chance to input the target bearing and approximate distance. Once you hit the first button for input it starts another timer. It times how long it takes you to input the information and cross references it with the wingman location data and adjust the target location (since by the time you get the bearing and distance info and hit the first key the aircrafts location has changed by a couple of seconds). If no info is input within five seconds it goes back to wingman location input mode.

 

For people in your flight group you would use automatic mode (maps online connected). This would basically be the same effect as using the Ka-50 abris. The map software would assign your wingman (and yourself) an ID# and constantly update all flight data from your wingmen. For obvious reasons the maximum amount of maps that should be simultaneously connected should be four or less (to simulate a wing group). After a certain distance wingmen would disappear off the map (to simulate loss of signal over distance) to find a target you would only need Wingman ID# (since there can be 3 wingmen) bearing and distance.

 

What do you guys think? Would this be doable and useful?

Note I can NOT program. This was just a what if. Do any of you Mr. Wizards think you could pull this off? It would REALLY change the sim.

 

Edited January 13, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[Moa]

104th has working moving map (centered around the player's aircraft) for FC2 in beta. I haven't had time to finish it for general use and was keeping it reasonably quiet, plus it uses a customised export script which currently fails the default Integrity Check (eg on major dedicated servers like 51st, 104th, =4c= etc). It uses the igormk TC-1 map that you show.

 

nb. US/NATO Link-16 can share more than the 4 aircraft that Ka-50 is limited to, so this limit wouldn't need to be modelled.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Does your moving map system have a target waypoint ability? I did not think you could export target data that is why I came up with the timer system. If that system would be beneficial to your map system feel free to implement it. I look forward to seeing this map when it is available. That is if you are considering a public release.

 

Oh and Moa, stop thinking of my ideas before I do:megalol:.

 

By the way what do you think of my new avatar (giggidy)? Bonus points if you can guess who she is.

[YorZor]

There is already such a program and it was shot down by the community because people fear for exploits...

[Azrayen]

Hi ZQuickSilverZ,

 

Doable? I guess so.

Useful? Franckly, I doubt so.

 

If you need to know the posit of something (wingman, target, anything...) why don't you use the bearing/distance of a common reference (bulls). Either the bulls is predefined (a shared waypoint) or you can use an airbase FAF : those are always the same for all planes in FC2.

Basically : use your HSI as a map. A HSI is a map, somehow ;)

More realistic IMO, and already available. :)

 

Cheers

Az'

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Moa could you post some screenshots? I would love to see the system.

Edited January 13, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[ZQuickSilverZ]

There is already such a program and it was shot down by the community because people fear for exploits...

 

Do you have a link to the program? What exploits did people fear? Do you think the system I described could be exploited? If so, how?

 

Hi ZQuickSilverZ,

 

Doable? I guess so.

Useful? Franckly, I doubt so.

 

If you need to know the posit of something (wingman, target, anything...) why don't you use the bearing/distance of a common reference (bulls). Either the bulls is predefined (a shared waypoint) or you can use an airbase FAF : those are always the same for all planes in FC2.

Basically : use your HSI as a map. A HSI is a map, somehow ;)

More realistic IMO, and already available. :)

 

Cheers

Az'

 

I know of the bullseye system. I do not think it is very efficient however. It is very prone to pilot error and is not in any way pinpoint accurate. The bullseye system is less of a "right here" and more of a "in this neighborhood. I suppose you could use bullseye but personally I would prefer an abris like device. If bullseye was that great the military would have never been interested in moving map systems and target waypoints. It has already been established that the A-10A has this capability. As far as the Su25T.... who knows?

Edited January 13, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[GGTharos]

Useful? Franckly, I doubt so.

 

Very, IF integrated into your aircraft (no extra monitors etc).

 

If you need to know the posit of something (wingman, target, anything...) why don't you use the bearing/distance of a common reference (bulls). Either the bulls is predefined (a shared waypoint) or you can use an airbase FAF : those are always the same for all planes in FC2.

Basically : use your HSI as a map. A HSI is a map, somehow ;)

More realistic IMO, and already available. :)

 

The HSI in FC2 is broken when in a combat mode. Sometimes, when you most needed it you can't use it!

 

 

I know of the bullseye system. I do not think it is very efficient however.

 

It is, which is why it's used in RL. While datalinks make things a lot more convenient, datalinks are subject to being the first thing that gets killed by electronic warfare.

 

It is very prone to pilot error and is not in any way pinpoint accurate. The bullseye system is less of a "right here" and more of a "in this neighborhood. I suppose you could use bullseye but personally I would prefer an abris like device. If bullseye was that great the military would have never been interested in moving map systems and target waypoints. It has already been established that the A-10A has this capability. As far as the Su25T.... who knows?

 

Like I said, datalinks make things far more convenient, but the usefulness of bullseye should not be under-estimated. Like all things involving mental gymnastics, pilots must practice it to be profficient in it. It isn't meant for giving exact target coordinates, and should not be used this way. Exact coordinates are provided either by LL or MGRS, not bullseye. If you can't provide those, you use talk-on by getting eyes of whoever on target and using the features there to guide them onto a target.

[RIPTIDE]

Moa could you post some screenshots? I would love to see the system.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I know of the bullseye system. I do not think it is very efficient however.

 

It is, which is why it's used in RL. While datalinks make things a lot more convenient, datalinks are subject to being the first thing that gets killed by electronic warfare.

 

I could navigate with the North Star to but I would prefer a compass.

 

GGTharos I agree with you bullseye does have a use. As I stated earlier though it is more of an "in the neighborhood system" We (War Hawks) have used bullseye to great effect. We would use KA-50's to spot targets (at a distance!) then use the ERBL system to give an exact bearing and distance from bullseye to the target. Using this system we could do fairly precision bombing runs. Smoke, although somewhat far from the target area could help also (smoke is its own bullseye :)).

 

Believe me I know the usefulness and accuracy that bullseye can provide. That being said the jets as offered now can not provide this as well as a helo as they don't have the benefit of the ERBL system, to make a target waypoint, or even get GPS information.

 

Take this example. Lets say I am flying a Ka-50 and another pilot is flying the A-10C. I can feed him GPS coordinates and he can make a waypoint. I can litterly tell him right where a target is. I would only like for the Lock-On jets to have the same opportunity. With the map system you could punch in GPS coordinates and the plotter could place a flag for you.

 

I just think that this system would greatly benefit Lock-On. It would help "even them up" to the DCS airframes.

 

Thanks for the screenshot Riptide.

Edited January 13, 2012 by ZQuickSilverZ

[Azrayen]

Hi,

 

Tharos, I agree the frozen HSI in combat mode is a pain in the ass. I guess I just made an habit of switching quickly combat-nav-back to combat. But, still, it's boring. :)

 

ZQuickSilverZ, of course a map+datalink is more convenient :) I like the ABRIS on the Ka-50, and I'm sure I will love the A-10C moving maps as soon as a new computer will allow me to fly it.

 

As for LockOn, I mainly fly air to air, with the Su-27, not the Su-35. The plane doesn't have such a feature IRL, then I'm perfectly happy with not having it in the sim. And the accuracy of the bulls is OK in air to air. I must admit I have to search for a while when doing air to ground, though. Well, it was "realistic" as far as I know for the 27, and felt like a good training :)

 

++

Az'

[bnepethomas]

Whenever you are ready to share this, I'd be interested.

 

Cheers

Peter

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I would be very intrested as well. Does the map have target plotting? Does it have the ability to track other players? If it does not do you plan on adding it?

[RIPTIDE]

Its a WIP. Feel free to hassle 'Moa' about it and tell him to hurry t'f@~k up. :)

[jib]

With combined arms supporting human JTAC's and controlling ground forces maybe ED are already working on something like this?

 

Otherwise Flaming cliffs 3 planes won't be able to be used in conjunction with Combined Arms.

[GGTharos]

Smoke. :D

 

Otherwise Flaming cliffs 3 planes won't be able to be used in conjunction with Combined Arms.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Where there is smoke there is fire.

[jib]

Well if only DCS planes can receive electronic data from the JATC thats fine, because most of the planes in FC3 are older and don't have the systems to receive data, they will still get the co-ordinates and talk on over the radio, so that would be most realistic.

[Grimes]

Would FC3 even be on the same radio net? I mean its basically "easy" radios already and you can't change frequency or turn the radio off. Missions with AI would be non-stop, "Uzi 11 spotted AAA bullseye 230 for 4". I feel the radio is one of those crucial aspects of the sim that has changed some much from FC2 to WH that it complicates matters further if the functionality of aircraft radios doesn't change much for the FC aircraft.