Warthog vs. Anti-Aircraft Assets

[Spectre_USA]

Flew this flapper last night, and have a couple of critiques. :D

 

First off, you start in the air, at 25,000! Took me aback, slightly, was anticipating

a ramp start.

 

Secondly, found a hindrance to ICT's, a wayward Patriot RADAR;

 

Lastly, if you stray over Waypoint 2, the 8 Apaches disappear completely!

 

I imagine this was by design, but I did so after getting a message that they did

not get them all, press on. So I did, then was told they were bailing, and POOF!

 

On the plus side, a seriously target saturated area! And I love the ammo dumps

all over doing random detonations and secondaries. Very nice ambiance!

 

I just wish I could garner a few points, as I bagged 69 targets through 3 ICT's.

 

Not your fault, but a continuing bug that I wish would get addressed someday.

 

Overall, very well crafted mission, this must have some sweat equity in it!

 

:thumbup:

[StrongHarm]

Thanks :) I've not been away really, just putting my time into testing and mission dev. Love flying with the guys from the 1stVFW! As soon as I clean up the other 3 Patara Valley missions I'll be in the sky multi much more often.

 

@Spectre - hah! wow.. I left the mission in a test state when I uploaded it (smacks forehead).. I'll fix and post with edit notice heheh.

 

EDIT: Fixed.. tell me what you think Spectre.

NOTE: By design it's reported if NORTH SEAD or SOUTH SEAD fails in their mission, so you'll know that you need to take up SEAD in a given area. If the both fail there's a different message. If you go into the AO before SEAD complete.. by one or both sectors, the Apaches do AI Task-RTB, Hold fire. Hit F10 to get MGRS on remaining AA assets.

 

Edited January 28, 2012 by StrongHarm

[Rocky49]

Strongharm:

I can't access the video...it isn't with your other utube videos?

[StrongHarm]

Strongharm:

I can't access the video...it isn't with your other utube videos?

 

You may be hitting an older version of the vid if you're searching youtube by my name. Click on the link in the OP. That work ok?

[Rocky49]

Strongharm:

 

Video link works on my Desktop but not my Ipad...go figure. Great mission BTW.

[StrongHarm]

Yeah.. youtube's commie content system detected that I used Aces High by Iron Maiden in the second half of the vid. It's content locked from mobile devices... :censored:

[Supersheep]

..and from Germany.

Now that saves me some time on the video that I'll invest into studying your miz in the editor.

Need to get to terms with SEAD flights :)

 

 

Thanks, already!

Super-

[Migow]

I was afraid someone might take my comments this way. It wasn't my intention to be critical toward anyone's missions, and I meant no offense. My goal was to identify a growing trend and suggest an alternative.

 

Concerning Apaches in a SEAD role; I would encourage you to read about the opening days of Desert Storm. There's a reason why (besides the Eagle wiping their fighters up) we didn't lose any strike aircraft, despite over 10,000 iraqi anti-aircraft assets in theater.

A combination of the following:

1. Satallite imagery

2. Junior Spooks combing over the images for anti-aircraft emplacements

3. HARM !

4. Tomahawk

5. EC-130s shutting coms down between AA batteries

6. Apaches and AA sweep corridors

 

I personally witnessed 300+ Apaches fly over prior to the opening strikes.. it looked like a swarm of mosquitoes. They would fly in NOE with assigned air corridors and sweep forward taking out AA emplacements as they went. Although I agree that SEAD ops are usually greedily horded by the USAF and wild weasel aircraft, the Apache can and does serve in this role with success... especially the D variant.

 

If you fly Blackshark, try some popup maneuvers to see how effective helos can be in SEAD/DEAD. You hover behind terrain cover, pop up / acquire / fire, then drop back behind cover. This can be acheived with one good jolt to the cyclic if done correctly. Fun stuff!

 

I love flying the KA-50.. I actually have a variation of this mission where you're in the helo group performing SEAD before you call the Hawgs in. And now it's out.. the real reason I used Apaches for SEAD ! heheh

 

the ah64D radar(block 1) is almost useless against static target (especially in high clutter environement city , forest) they can rely only on EO , but maybe they should see sam on MTI if the sam radar is rotating even if it transmitter is off .

if i remember most of sam have EO(so below doppler filter ALT is useless) so they can see you just as you see them so they should be able to supress helo (i 'm talking about modern sam like sa 15 sa 19 etc.. even sa 8 so the first who see the other one win :confused:

i have doubt about ah 64 as sead against modern sam

even with EW they still have EO and telemetry so dead mission is too risky?

Edited January 29, 2012 by Fifou265

[StrongHarm]

I do know that the Hellfires fired from Apaches were the first shots fired in Desert Storm, and it was a DEAD mission. This is probably the one single concrete fact I've spoken about AH-64's :). I know this from experience rather than heresay. As a former engineer on U.S. Navy fixed wing aircraft, I can't say that I know much about the rotor world, but I do know that Apaches were among the first platforms used for JSEAD. A single Apache radar can detect and manage up to 128 targets, moving and stationary, then classify, distribute, and correlate the target information with all assets within the JSEAD network. I don't have any numbers to back my statement up, so I may be incorrect in assuming that the Apache is frequently used for SEAD.

 

I do love doing DEAD popups in my Blackshark regardless of the risk.. she's a beauty! I hope one day to bask in the magnificence of DCS: AH-64D.. that would be sahweet

[Spectre_USA]

A DCS : AH-64D would peg my happy meter!

 

Well, it was actually reading infinity when A-10C came out, but it does fade over

time. :D

 

As to testing the new mission, I am sorry, but without any kind of feedback via

debrief as in points, landings, etc., I can't be arsed to fly it again.

 

There has got to be something simple, but ED hasn't got it fixed so...

[StrongHarm]

That's cool. The problems you mentioned before should be resolved. I'm working on a coop Hawg Blackshark version of the mission right now.

[TigersharkBAS]

Manpads, AAA, Shilka, and Strellas are enough of a threat in my opinion to keep things interesting while still maintaining a little bit of realism. Any SAM threat larger than that and realism tends to go a little out of the window. However when used sparingly, I feel that Tunguskas, Tors, and Osa's can be easily handled by A-10C pilots within the sim. But yeah, things can get a bit silly when the player is asked to handle absolutely everything, especially when the triggers required 100% of a group to die.

 

Well said. echoes my sentiments exactly.

[StrongHarm]

If you want to spawn AA assets based on current events within a multi mission, try this:

(Once) X: COCKPIT ARGUMENT IN RANGE - 779, 1, 1 = Group Activate SA-*

(Switched Condition) X: COCKPIT ARGUMENT IN RANGE - 779, 0, 0 = AI Deactivate SA-*

(Switched Condition) X: COCKPIT ARGUMENT IN RANGE - 779, 1, 1 = AI Activate SA-*

 

The result is that if you're the mission host, when you switch on the "Zeroize" switch on the KY58 secure voice channel, an SA-* asset is spawned. When you switch it off their radar goes dark. When you switch it back on their radar lights up again.

 

Talk about things getting interesting!

[Leroy]

We were tasked against sams and the Republican guards in the Gulf War. I lost two friends to Sams in one mission. Steve Phyliss was the flight lead. His wingman was hit by a sam and Steve got hit trying to help him. Think it was SA-13s. Bad system. SEAD is not the first mission but you have to deal with them if they pop up.

 

Leroy

[TigersharkBAS]

We were tasked against sams and the Republican guards in the Gulf War. I lost two friends to Sams in one mission. Steve Phyliss was the flight lead. His wingman was hit by a sam and Steve got hit trying to help him. Think it was SA-13s. Bad system. SEAD is not the first mission but you have to deal with them if they pop up.

 

Leroy

 

I think that's the point Leroy. Popping up is different from a mission where the primary objective is to clear an area of SAMs. And again, I don't mean MANPADs here.

[Leroy]

I think that's the point Leroy. Popping up is different from a mission where the primary objective is to clear an area of SAMs. And again, I don't mean MANPADs here.

 

I think the Republican Guard mission was the first time that Hogs had been tasked to do SEAD as a primary mission.

 

P.S. Co Pilot is a dirty word to a Single Seat Pilot.

 

Leroy

[StrongHarm]

Xaoslaad, I agree with and applaud your approach. The ME gives us the freedom to create a dynamic battlefield, I'm glad you're taking advantage of it. My approach in the referenced mission is a mirror of the one you took. The mission starts with SEAD ops in progress, but if you fly into the AO, or SEAD fails, MGRS of last known position of each mobile AA is reported via F10. This mission also includes a version where SEAD is Blacksharks, player or AI. If a player spawns in a Blackshark, the AI Blacksharks RTB.

 

The good thing about this mission for new pilots is that target identification is pretty simple. Enemy columns have been bottlenecked off of two roads. It's still in testing so I'd appreciate your feedback if you and your friends have time to try it out. It can be found here.

[StrongHarm]

Well done Xaoslaad.

 

The mission referenced in my initial post has been revised to allow recall of SEAD with F10. Some bug fixes were introduced as well. This should be my final version of this mission:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84697

[TigersharkBAS]

I just created my first mission for some friends that play A-10C and BS2 with slots for both aircraft.

 

It is a bunch of static targets (artillery, tanks, IFV's, APC's, and a few bridges) protected by a few SA-9, an SA-8, and a couple Shilka's. I intend to play it tomorrow with a couple friends who literally just figured out to fire Maverick's last week, so taking all these threats out might be a little much to ask of them just yet, though at my level I don't view an SA-9 as much of a threat as long as I know it's there and don't mistakenly wander into its path (all the harder to do in this mission because labels are turned up for their sake while they learn the systems a little better.)

 

What I did to balance this, depending on the level of difficulty players want, is to add a SEAD flight composed of F-16's with HARM and Mavericks. If they're released by the players from their station they will kill the 4 SAM's which they are specifically tasked to do. They will not touch the Shilka's though, still leaving an element of danger for the newbie.

 

So, I can play this with the new guys and let the SEAD flight do it for them.

 

Or I can play with more experienced pilots, and we can do it ourselves... to me that is the best solution available.

 

That is a very cool way of implementing the best of both worlds. Well done!

[ralfidude]

I do hope there are more a10 slots over ka50 slots. I dont understand why there are like 15 KA slots and only 5 a10 slots in certain servers. We have much much much more hog pilots over the sharks, so i urge all map makers to keep that in mind when making slots for MP. Il check this mission out though.

[StrongHarm]

The referenced mission has a four Hawg element and two Shark elements of two, northfarp and southfarp.