Kh-25ml of ED have on the wrong pylon!!

[pepin1234]

Returning to the Kh-25ml:

 

Hey guy one thing ist that the Kh-25ml was tested on inner pylons, but was not suitable like a series birds cuz cost. If the result of test was successful, but may have some particularities to reduce maneuverability. We can assume the risk and try with that payload. Other things is that ED need recalculate the result of that new setup. I dont believe the Ka-52 of the pictures have this payload like a simple publicity and as all we know the ka-50 was the main plataform or base for the ka-52 and that payload was tested on the ka-50, of course. I say the R-73 with 4 km range is so weak to assume a CAS mission. And the Kh-25ml is not important at the moment for the new Ka-52, cuz the Russian Army like use it as support and co-ordinate group attack helicopter operations. So a payload with kh-25ml on inner pylons have not sence at the moment.

 

May do ED that management for us and bring that powerfull payload for our DCS??

 

Honestly with that payload I fulminate a ground-air defence, even having 2 Tors or some Tungusca and I could at once do it ( just one flight )

Edited April 19, 2012 by pepin1234

[macedk]

Who says I don't already?

uxZj5n4vdpw

:)

 

Problem is, it doesn't work in multiplayer :(

awww do not watch this video when you have a hangover hehe ;)

[Xxx]

I say the R-73 with 4 km range is so weak to assume a CAS mission.

 

The R73 Archer has a range of 20 KM. Thats the "early" variant "A". The latest R73M, has a range of 40 KM. Aimed by the Helmet, but its apparently esy to shoot!

 

If you would like to kill that A10 before he tries to kill you with his arrogant LGB attack.....Just Archer him:D прибывающий стрелец

 

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/aa-11.htm

 

 

:thumbup:

[GGTharos]

... When launched at high altitude and high mach. It has essentially the same range as a sidewinder. The new archer ... who the heck knows. Maybe they were able to take out a bunch of electronics and put in twice the rocket (miniaturization of electronics).

 

Either way, the A-10 gets the advantage.

 

The R73 Archer has a range of 20 KM.

 

If you would like to kill that A10 before he tries to kill you with his arrogant LGB attack.....Just Archer him:D прибывающий стрелец

[Weta43]

You probably shouldn't be using the 25 anyway. I don't think it's really cleared on operational Ka-50's,

 

If someone's trying to be 'pure' about payloads while creating missions you're probably right, less desire for purity - less of an argument... (& the same should be said of S-24's as they are a hazard to the aircraft when salvo'd & that hazard isn't modeled)

 

nor is it very useful. Any demolition that you can't do with the S-13's or bombs (especially if it is because you can't get close enough to the target) is better left to a fast mover.

 

I'm not sure about the logic here. In terms of demoliiton it can penetrate 1m of concrete (same as an S-13 - if more expensive :-) . That's useful under certain circumstances..

 

Is there an advantage in demolition from from 8km - 10km out ? - You say that if you have to use this capability then call a fast mover - why would you not want and use stand off capabilities in a helicopter ? When flying the Ka-50 do you use the stand off capability of the Vikhr, or do you fly up to bomb & gun range then launch them at point blank range ? There is safety in distance. As a pilot, if the option were there in circumstances where the target has unknown defences, would you want a long stick or a short stick ?

[GGTharos]

You say that if you have to use this capability then call a fast mover - why would you not want and use stand off capabilities in a helicopter ?

 

1. It gets there slower.

2. It makes delivery more dangerous.

3. You will likely achieve more mass of firepower by using fast-movers.

 

When flying the Ka-50 do you use the stand off capability of the Vikhr, or do you fly up to bomb & gun range then launch them at point blank range ? There is safety in distance. As a pilot, if the option were there in circumstances where the target has unknown defences, would you want a long stick or a short stick ?

 

As a pilot, you do the job you're assigned to. In the case of the Ka-50, that's probably not busting up buildings.

About the only reason to use a Ka-50 is because you've got nothing else to do the job. The job of an attack helicopter is blowing up vehicles and infantry. Generally speaking, dealing with buildings that infantry hides in has been dealt with using ATGMs, not actual bunker-busters.

 

For busting bunkers, it has always been fast movers. There is some exception there for anti-ship work, but the Ka-50 has no anti-ship mission.

 

Of course, you can always dream up whatever situation you want, and the idea has always been to play your sim how you like it - with the caveat that ED won't be providing you with unrealistic or questionable stuff on purpose (barring certain notable exceptions)

[Weta43]

1. It gets there slower.

2. It makes delivery more dangerous.

3. You will likely achieve more mass of firepower by using fast-movers.

 

That's is more of a generic argument against attack helicopters than against a particular weapon on a helicopter... 8)

 

As for the rest of what you say - on the whole I'd agree. You do what you're assigned & that's probably not busting up buildings (or blowing people out of caves) - which is more likely to be handed off to a fast(er) mover, but credible circumstances where a Ka-50 might be tasked with this role are not unimaginable (either because other assets are unavailable or the particular nature of the task*), and if they arose, the Kh-25ML might be just the job....

 

Again - on the whole I'd agree a more conventional loadout is more flexible and useful.

 

*It's a COIN helicopter these days - Imagine a cross border covert strike on an insurgent target in mountainous terrain where the exact position of the target is unknown, requiring some loiter to confirm target (one building in a compound with civilians in others), posssibility of stingers, topography makes a low level strike by a fast mover difficult while staying down in the valleys to avoid detection, yada yada yada...

[Grimes]

Ka-50 doesn't use anti-tank missiles to destroy buildings?

 

 

Check and mate!

[pepin1234]

That's is more of a generic argument against attack helicopters than against a particular weapon on a helicopter... 8)

 

As for the rest of what you say - on the whole I'd agree. You do what you're assigned & that's probably not busting up buildings (or blowing people out of caves) - which is more likely to be handed off to a fast(er) mover, but credible circumstances where a Ka-50 might be tasked with this role are not unimaginable (either because other assets are unavailable or the particular nature of the task*), and if they arose, the Kh-25ML might be just the job....

 

Again - on the whole I'd agree a more conventional loadout is more flexible and useful.

 

*It's a COIN helicopter these days - Imagine a cross border covert strike on an insurgent target in mountainous terrain where the exact position of the target is unknown, requiring some loiter to confirm target (one building in a compound with civilians in others), posssibility of stingers, topography makes a low level strike by a fast mover difficult while staying down in the valleys to avoid detection, yada yada yada...

 

I dont think so about that. If the Ka-50 have tested capability to carry kh-25ml and Vikhr. That could represent highly preformance of power-fire. I dont agree with the theory of the Kh-25ml is just for buildins destruction. In a eventual conflict. First you need see the practice before the theoric. When u talking about a real conflict. Rusia have few units of Su-25T and the Su-25 right now is not ready to asume a battle with a modern and dificult enemy with numerous of Ground-Air units. So tell me what u gone use to destroy a Roland ADS late version when the numbers of Ka-50/52 and Su-25T are not enough???? obiusly the first candidat here is the Kh-25ml and of course have a good potencial to assume that roll. Other way, is to use a high numbers of Mi-24 with ATGMs missiles but...

 

For example u are with your flights units ( 1 + 3wingmans ) and one of the wigmans have the payload of Kh-25ml/Vikhr. The rest 3 units can make their work prefectly covering the unit with kh-25ml/Vikhr payload. When that unit launch the two 25ml, then can continue a normal combat roll.

 

Now come the other thing is really important and I hope ED do Su-25T model with that important panel.

Is highly important that panel and that system for a Air-ground unit like the Su-25T. What sense make a new Su-25T, with a A-10C DCS with all the systems in operation. I am talking about the PVI-800 system, but corresponding for the Su-25T ( I dont know the name su-25T Navigation/panel )

 

So, I flight Su-25T and Ka-50 and I can say:

If ED can not make a Ka-50 with kh-25ml/Vikhr payload because yada yada yada... Tell me how can I give the coords to my Su-25T with the 25ml / 29l,T Payload????????????????????? And How could u convince the new pilots to use the Su-25T even using the actual ED version when support the Ka-50 units is really Unreal without the corresponding navigation System

Edited April 23, 2012 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

So tell me what u gone use to destroy a Roland ADS late version when the numbers of Ka-50/52 and Su-25T are not enough???? obiusly the first candidat here is the Kh-25ml and of course have a good potencial to assume that roll. Other way, is to use a high numbers of Mi-24 with ATGMs missiles but...

 

1) Vikhr

2) Su-24

3) Su-22

4) Su-27SM

 

But not a Ka-50 with Kh-25 ... and probably not a Ka-50 at all.

 

For example u are with your flights units ( 1 + 3wingmans ) and one of the wigmans have the payload of Kh-25ml/Vikhr. The rest 3 units can make their work prefectly covering the unit with kh-25ml/Vikhr payload. When that unit launch the two 25ml, then can continue a normal combat roll.

 

That is game/armchair general fantasy. You would use a better aircraft or weapon for the job, like above. There's no reason to choose Kh-25ml on the Ka-50 vs Vikhr to defeat any SHORAD. The only possible exception is ground troops designating the target, but at that point it's safer to deliver with a Su-25.

 

In addition, packing Kh-25's limits your operating capabilities - the weight is such that you're instantly precluded from using them at higher elevations, assuming you want to hover to deliver. If you don't want to hover, why aren't you in a Su-25 instead?

 

Regarding the FC Su-25T - guess what. It's not a DCS aircraft, you won't get the nav panel modeled in detail like it is in the current DCS planes.

[EtherealN]

So tell me what u gone use to destroy a Roland ADS late version when the numbers of Ka-50/52 and Su-25T are not enough????

 

Su-24, MiG-27, Su-22, Su-27... ... ... ;)

 

And on the helicopter front, there is modernised Mi-24's and of course the Mi-28, which are actually meant to be front-line warfighters. The Ka-50 is a COIN aircraft and there's just a dozen or so of them in operational service, compared to hundreds of the alternatives.

 

As an aside, there are very very few Su-25T as well. If I remember right there's 8 of them. Yes, 8.

 

Don't expect the russian air force to spend lots of money on weapon integration for platforms that are so miniscule in number as the Ka-50 or Su-25T.

 

Tell me how can I give the coords to my Su-25T with the 25ml / 29l,T Payload????????????????????? And How could u convince the new pilots to use the Su-25T even using the actual ED version when support the Ka-50 units is really Unreal without the corresponding navigation System

 

Smoke rockets? Talk them in as an AFAC with contact references?

[pepin1234]

1) Vikhr

2) Su-24

3) Su-22

4) Su-27SM

 

But not a Ka-50 with Kh-25 ... and probably not a Ka-50 at all.

 

Vikhr?? Wich one aircraft would u use with Vikhr??

Of course Su-22,24 and 27. I think u mean these aircrafts with 25s missiles.

But happen that the 25s missiles of FC2 Flyable aircrafts working just with Su-25 ( really dangerous use it on it, no Shkval thats crassy ) and Su-25T with Shkval but without the corresponding navigation system benefit. Then come the KA-50 with no possibility Payload Vikhr/25s together.

All right I could understand the situation of Ka-50 and these missiles. But then ED could make something extra for theirs customers

 

That is game/armchair general fantasy. You would use a better aircraft or weapon for the job, like above. There's no reason to choose Kh-25ml on the Ka-50 vs Vikhr to defeat any SHORAD. The only possible exception is ground troops designating the target, but at that point it's safer to deliver with a Su-25.

 

Regarding the FC Su-25T - guess what. It's not a DCS aircraft, you won't get the nav panel modeled in detail like it is in the current DCS planes.

 

DCS fur Su-25T noooo!!! First, the comunity do not need DCS level for Su-25T efficiency, but of course we need a little more capability when u expect to have both Su-25t and DCS A-10c at same combat area. And please dont say the word: "Game" so. when lots of fans spend hundreds hours learning flight techniques. Then please say to ED do not make manuals any more that this is a pretty game.:cry:

 

Use Kh-25ml means "designation" with... optical system, at that case "Shkval". Then Shkval together with 25s and making designation with Smoke rockets:megalol: even when I try use Su-24mr and Mig-25 reconnaissance and look like a big hoax such name, please... Then FC2 needs something else that Kh-25ml missiles even when is look impossible use it on Ka-50 together with Vikhr.:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

Edited April 20, 2012 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

Vikhr?? Wich one aircraft would u use with Vikhr??

 

I'd use a Ka-50 against a Roland in this case, given that I could use the full range of the missile. Otherwise I wouldn't use a helicopter if I could help it.

 

Of course Su-22,24 and 27. I think u mean these aircrafts with 25s missiles.

 

Yes, correct. But of course I would prefer to use a different, more modern missile.

 

But happen that the 25s missiles of FC2 Flyable aircrafts working just with Su-25 ( really dangerous use it on it, no Shkval thats crassy ) and Su-25T with Shkval but without the corresponding navigation system benefit.

 

Well, again, it's an FC-level aircraft ...

 

Then come the KA-50 with no possibility Payload Vikhr/25s together.

All right I could understand the situation of Ka-50 and these missiles. But then ED could make something extra for theirs customers

 

I think you will have to wait for DCS: Russian Fixed Wing modules :)

 

DCS fur Su-25T noooo!!! First, the comunity do not need DCS level for Su-25T efficiency, but of course we need a little more capability when u expect to have both Su-25t and DCS A-10c at same combat area. And please dont say the word: "Game" so. when lots of fans spends hundreds hours learning flight techniques. Then please say to ED do not make manuals any more that this is a pretty game.:cry:

 

It has nothing to do with 'game' or whatnot. Su-25T exists as it does right now, and while this may change in the future, I doubt it will happen any time soon, if ever.

 

Use Kh-25ml means "designation" with... optical system, at that case "Shkval". Then Shkval together with 25s and making designation with Smoke rockets:megalol: even when I try use Su-24mr and Mig-25 reconnaissance and look like a big hoax such name, please... Then FC2 needs something else that Kh-25ml missiles even when is look impossible use it on Ka-50 together with Vikhr.:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

 

Yes, and my F-15 needs 9 more radar modes, AIM-120 features, a working nav system, a killer jamming system ... and everyone can say the same thing about their favorite FC plane. You're asking for a little too much.

 

As for the AI, well ... the AI is simple, but maybe something can be done about this.

 

I understand that you play in single-player. I think most of us who argue come from multi-player background.

 

I don't know what types of LUA files you need to alter, but if it helps you enjoy the game more, then certainly do that. I just don't think you'll find a lot of targets that you want to carry Kh-25's for though ... most of them you can attack with Vikhrs. IMHO.

[Boberro]

I don't know what types of LUA files you need to alter, but if it helps you enjoy the game more, then certainly do that. I just don't think you'll find a lot of targets that you want to carry Kh-25's for though ... most of them you can attack with Vikhrs. IMHO.

 

Don't know about reality differences between FC's Kh-25ML and real one however in LO you can fire it from 20 km and it will smoothly glide to target. Sometimes being higher I fire it from 23 km max IIRC.

Only problem is.... laser which overheats and turns off, but you can fastly override it and turn on again.

In this aspect it is nice thing to keep in case of TOR, which in FC can be killed via Vikhr too but you much safer is to use 25ML against that thing.

[pepin1234]

It has nothing to do with 'game' or whatnot. Su-25T exists as it does right now, and while this may change in the future, I doubt it will happen any time soon, if ever.

If exist or does not we really dont care about that. But the Su-25T aircraft is wonderful and a lot of people say that. So that is important. Is not our fault that the F-22 exist and Russia have priority for the PAK-FA. Do u understand what I mean??

Yes, and my F-15 needs 9 more radar modes, AIM-120 features, a working nav system, a killer jamming system ... and everyone can say the same thing about their favorite FC plane. You're asking for a little too much..

Great!! but happen that does not exit a DCS Su-27 or Su-30MKI. If that happen I am sure u will be the first here in that forum asking for a little performance for your F-15. Otherwise u have forced to fly in a Su-27 DCS. So new radars, jamming etc etc have not sense right now for the F-15. Just wait for the F-18 DCS and I will see how happy u fly with ur F-15 without new radars modes.

Quote:Of course Su-22,24 and 27. I think u mean these aircrafts with 25s missiles.

 

Of course Su-22,24 and 27. I think u mean these aircrafts with 25s missiles. Yes, correct. But of course I would prefer to use a different, more modern missile..

More modern. haha maverick. Well thats the point here, if ED make just few performance to the Su-25T optical system we could say if your modern missile is really good, but without such optical designator system is impossible.

I don't know what types of LUA files you need to alter, but if it helps you enjoy the game more, then certainly do that. I just don't think you'll find a lot of targets that you want to carry Kh-25's for though ... most of them you can attack with Vikhrs. IMHO.

LUA. Sorry if I would like alter my LUA maybe I will need contact u cuz I dont know at wich folder are such file. I wait for ED because I pay for that and I hope they hear their customers.

Edited April 20, 2012 by pepin1234

[cltmmm]

Ka-50 doesn't use anti-tank missiles to destroy buildings?

 

 

Check and mate!

 

Most realistic war movie, ever... Hands down.

[pepin1234]

Don't know about reality differences between FC's Kh-25ML and real one however in LO you can fire it from 20 km and it will smoothly glide to target. Sometimes being higher I fire it from 23 km max IIRC.

Only problem is.... laser which overheats and turns off, but you can fastly override it and turn on again.

In this aspect it is nice thing to keep in case of TOR, which in FC can be killed via Vikhr too but you much safer is to use 25ML against that thing.

 

Thats great. But I dont think so that the Kh-25s need laser override at 23 km launching. The only problem here is the speed. You should have a low weigh payload to try get about 750 km/h speed and maybe your keep your laser distance right. With a full payload u cant do that. I could do that even if I lauch my Kh-25 to a convoy moving. Just try set the trigger shkval at 20 and move ur trigger til the missile hit.

Edited April 30, 2012 by pepin1234

[EtherealN]

Wait 750km/h? In a Ka-50? Wha? :P

 

From what I remember, that's actually higher than terminal velocity for a Ka-50, so... :P

[PhoenixBvo]

I think they're talking of the Frog in FC.

[pepin1234]

Wait 750km/h? In a Ka-50? Wha? :P

 

From what I remember, that's actually higher than terminal velocity for a Ka-50, so... :P

 

Of course we talk Kh-25 on Su-25T. If you do that on Ka-50 then is imposible keep your laser range capability. So.. it is in Su-25T