50 cal damage modeling

[hitman]

yes

You black out, you cant control the aircraft. Ive noticed you black out for about 30 seconds before you can do anything. Other than that, charging a round into a chamber under high G shouldnt be a factor, its all mechanical.

[blackbaron]

it was weird, i pulled high gs started shooting (all 6 guns were firing), blacked out, came to, got back on his 6, pulled the trigger and nothing lol

[effte]

It was an issue with some gun installations. The belt feeds were modified to improve matters, with electrical motors IIRC. Can't recall if it was the Jug or the Pony though, but the wing profile and the DCS issues indicate it was the latter.

[Slayer]

Guns jam so many times on me in multiplayer. I suspect it's just because WIP and there are few systems failures modeled yet that it happens because it's only one of the few modeled so far..

[flightace37]

The claim is that gun jams were solved in the D model, then retrofitted to B/C. See http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php. This other site, http://www.aerofiles.com/JBnoram-p51bc.html, claims that the guns jammed because they were turned on their side to fit into the thin wing, forcing kinks into the ammo belts as they fed in.

 

It's quite possible that the modifications they made only alleviated the issue, and the guns still experience jams at high G. The best fix is to avoid shooting under those conditions. Rather than pulling G with the target, say in a flat turn, pitch up into a yo-yo and come down with your nose well ahead. Under those conditions, you don't have to pull nearly as much G to match the target, and thus don't have to expose the ammo belts to the adverse condition.

 

There's many different ways to reposition yourself into a better firing position. Think geometry instead of Hulk Hogan.

[blackbaron]

The claim is that gun jams were solved in the D model, then retrofitted to B/C. See http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php. This other site, http://www.aerofiles.com/JBnoram-p51bc.html, claims that the guns jammed because they were turned on their side to fit into the thin wing, forcing kinks into the ammo belts as they fed in.

 

It's quite possible that the modifications they made only alleviated the issue, and the guns still experience jams at high G. The best fix is to avoid shooting under those conditions. Rather than pulling G with the target, say in a flat turn, pitch up into a yo-yo and come down with your nose well ahead. Under those conditions, you don't have to pull nearly as much G to match the target, and thus don't have to expose the ammo belts to the adverse condition.

 

There's many different ways to reposition yourself into a better firing position. Think geometry instead of Hulk Hogan.

 

most definitely, was just curious, didn't know the guns would jam, gotta love the detail DCS puts in

[ErichVon]

Seems to be a fundamental theme across all flight sims where the .50 cal is modeled. Take your pick: the various aircraft in IL-2, Targetware, etc. The only one I've seen that modeled the .50s with high damage was Warbirds, but then a lot of people complained that they were too strong, and flew like "lasers". It ends up being a very subjective discussion.

 

From what I've seen, most sims model the .50 shooting either Ball or AP ammo, or a combination of the two. This is correct for many of the nations that used this caliber in WW2, but not the USA (among others). We loaded beltings that contained mixes of Ball, AP, HE, and incendiary rounds, as well as APHEI ammunition and tracers. There's a huge difference in the damage that aircraft-mounted .50s can do with this simple change. Of course, there were probably situations and periods where we were only shooting ball or AP, and I bet the pilots noticed this just as much as we do in sims.

 

Now, as far as my experience in DCS: P-51 goes, there's quite a bit of variation in weapons capability. I've had fights where it took my entire belt to shoot down one plane, and others where a tap of the trigger sawed a wing right off, or set the engine on fire instantly.

 

I do have a sneaking suspicion that ED hasn't added the more specialized rounds into the belt yet. If that's still to be implemented, I think we'll see a big improvement in the consistency of our 6 M2s if/when they do. I also hope they model the explosive visual effect when an HE round goes off. It's really impressive.

 

Note: There are also at least two major versions of the aircraft-mounted .50, one which saw service during WW2 (the M2) developing 800 rounds/minute, and one which entered service in 1947 (the M3), developing 1200 rounds/minute.

 

Ever fly Aces High?

 

Depends a lot on how far out your guns' convergence is and arc of the rounds.

 

I flew the "Intercept" mission in Quick-Start for the DCS P-51, 1st Beta. I had no problems lighting her up on the 1st pass, guns set at 600 feet.

 

But the training P-51 solo air to air, the guns seem rather weak.

 

I can't get above or behind the A.I. in the Quick-Start, one on one, even to fire one round. So I go low and he usually arcs into the ground. Funny watching him follow me under the power lines, zig-zagging-S-turns.

 

I know, too, in the other sim I fly, it depends on the map and how it is set up or bugs or glitches unique to that map or pre-programmed scenario.

 

Yeah, give us cannons---Me-109 or FW-190. LOL!

 

Aside: Keesler AFB gunnery range, my Seabee training crew brushing up on the M-60, prior to firing it, we had to remove ever 6th white phosphorous, tracer, round out of our cans of belts. They got PO'd we kept setting their woods on fire. LOL! That was about 1979.

Edited May 9, 2012 by ErichVon