How about our new hyperlobby players?

S77th-RYKE · October 11, 2005

well said GG

and furthermore we are saying " trust us friends , take the jump you will have a great time !! "

I too at first felt anxious when we took padlock off (we never used labels) but now I wouldn't want to use it , it is so much more rewarding this way .

S77th-RYKE · October 11, 2005

:) yeah it's tough at first but keep at it

it's like in a race sim you don't wanna enter the server and say OK new guy here ,everybody drive slow !! Nahh hit the gas pedal !! you will wreck at times and make friends ;) but you will get better

and the community will have one more online

Fat Boy · October 11, 2005

I think this is a great it will give people a chance to play online something they have not done before labels or no labels

I have been playing this game since 1.02 and have just started playing online. Not because I do not understand game. I will admit I do not understand it all I just do not have the time. The reason I have not played online before is because I did not know what it was like and there is always somebody that takes the game to serious

I posted this in another thread and wll add this

It still makes my palms sweat when I click on “Join This Session”

GGTharos · October 11, 2005

I think the problem is that when new players join a server and make mistakes which affect others (esp. misidentification, get bored and shoot at anything that moves, bomb the wrong target etc) they get yelled at. That's not fun. I'm guilty of doing that too if I'm suitably annoyed, and I was on the receiving end of it, so I know how it is.

Weta43 · October 11, 2005

There's now the offer of a day aweek for noobs to fly with labels, so that's all good, but I still say that given all the other things even an experienced offline player has to pick up when they first go online (tactics of human opposition, interacting with human team-mates, teamspeak etc) expecting someone new to LO to move straight to no labels is a quick way to discourage the bulk of newcomers and limit the size of the online community.

(& RYKE - who's in a better position to discuss barriers to people starting to play online :

People who are just now considering it or that have "10 or 20 hours worth" of experience.

Or those who have hundreds of hours experience & have completely forgotten what it's like to be a noob...)

Unless the plan is to keep the game for the hardcore few, there needs to be an easy first level for online players.

With it those who would always have stayed long term will stay, & some of those who would have been put of by the steep learing curve will get past that & stay too.

Fat Boy · October 11, 2005

I just started to playing online and if I had a place to learn I would have went there first. I am going to make mistakes and I will say I am sorry now but if I am going to get yelled at during this learning curve I will not be back. I am not trying to defend people that are not willing to learn but new players need a chance to learn

S77th-RYKE · October 11, 2005

There's now the offer of a day aweek for noobs to fly with labels, so that's all good, but I still say that given all the other things even an experienced offline player has to pick up when they first go online (tactics of human opposition, interacting with human team-mates, teamspeak etc) expecting someone new to LO to move straight to no labels is a quick way to discourage the bulk of newcomers and limit the size of the online community.
(& RYKE - who's in a better position to discuss barriers to people starting to play online :
People who are just now considering it or that have "10 or 20 hours worth" of experience.
Or those who have hundreds of hours experience & have completely forgotten what it's like to be a noob...)
Unless the plan is to keep the game for the hardcore few, there needs to be an easy first level for online players.
With it those who would always have stayed long term will stay, & some of those who would have been put of by the steep learing curve will get past that & stay too.

You misunderstand , I say I do remember that is why I encourage people to take the plunge

besides planes are free , what if you lose some ? I lose some everyday :)

and you did post here http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?p=112979#post112979

that you have never flown online , so why won't you just take our word for it instead of becoming one more forum belligerent for no reason cause you admit yourself you don't know , how could you ? you have never flown online .

I did ... all who did came in with their experience and say how great it is ...

try it or don't but please stop the arguing

that 's what's killing the game the damn arguing lol

and noobs should stop feeling ashamed they are noobs online , we all make stupid mistakes

it s just a game :)

S77th-RYKE · October 11, 2005

I just started to playing online and if I had a place to learn I would have went there first. I am going to make mistakes and I will say I am sorry now but if I am going to get yelled at during this learning curve I will not be back. I am not trying to defend people that are not willing to learn but new players need a chance to learn

Remember that most often the person who yells in a server is not an admin, it's a client just like you so let him yell , admins will tell him to stop

like i say in other posts, most important , learn to ID friend or foe and have fun

If you kill a friendly apologise, if you do it again exit the server and read the manual or something , you are doing something wrong.

those that answer a TK by a "what are you crazy you noob ??!! "

are just making things worse and are warned by admins.

don't be insulted if you ask a question and get no response , people are busy with 2 sticks (even 3 i 'm sure;) ) in their hands and take some time to answer ... so read the manual , do the training tracks

Battle_Rattle · October 12, 2005

I tend not to agree. 169th have a public teamspeak and we ARE willing to help new guys. But like you say if they ask dumb questions alot which are answered in the manual or in the training tracks which Shepski spent a huge amount of time and effort creating, then they arent going to last in this sim anyway. Lock On is hard it will allways have a high attrition rate.

In short: Help comes to those who help themselves.

Yeh I agree totally ice... and someone that Ice knows very well taught me alot of "the little" things i know...stuff like "You start contrailing at 25,000ft." Cheers to him and you for the TS, info, servers, and the crucial "New 1.1 players must read" thread.

Moving on...

For those talking about a set system where the dedicated server people set aside a day.... well i dont agree with trying to set that up (I wish i hadn't insinuated that).... it's their server and they can do with it as they wish. What i meant more is the directions in Hyperlobby... I have seen 20 people out of game in hyperlobby and virtually chatting around a request for help. Things more like that....

Maybe it does boil down to the fact that LOMAC is harder than what people expect.... but in general folks... don't let a good question go unanswered when you see it.

Weta43 · October 12, 2005

S77th-RYKE -

Is it time for me to pick up my toys & be nice?

I do think that for some the no labels on servers is an ego thing - though i realise for most it's about enjoyment & trying to be as real & use as few aids as possible, & I still say you don't need to have gone online to know what puts people off going online... but

There is the Thursday thing now - so that's a good entry.

When I can talk myself into getting broadband at home just to play LO I'll come & join you all.

Don't know what you fly but maybe you can be my first teamkill :-)

Might CU online sometime, you guys have your own server don't you?

S77th-RYKE · October 12, 2005

I'd be glad to fly with or against you

and bring your toys ;)

lol and no, i don't think it's an ego thing (maybe for some but who cares right ?) , it's a great sim , it's even better at ace settings.

new guy help page here

http://www.s77th.com/LomacHelp.php

Maulkin · October 12, 2005

If you want to play online with labels on, find a server that has them on -or- run one yourself ... those are the two viable solutions - nothing elitist about it.

Tharos, The problem is more evident when there is another thread offering to set a server up for one night a week for training purposes and the experienced people are saying labels should be removed. Unless I join a squad (which is not going to happen anytime soon being a father of 3) I cannot expect to recieve any kind of one on one training. I expect the Thursday night setting will be a bunch of guys trying to figure out their ass from a hole in the ground, like me, and a couple guys who are flying around and possibly providing answers to the occasional question and not really having time to hold anyone's hand. Labels provide an environment for students of the sim to teach themselves.

That being said, in a regular server I can respect the desire for labels to be off, even though I do not feel I am at that point yet. ;) Once I can get to a point where I can see something appear on my EWS and then be able to predict what it is and where it is, then look in that direction and find I am correct, then I will remove labels, because I also feel they are an immersion killer.

GGTharos · October 12, 2005

Well, all other things aside, you should 'drop by' a squad and see what their attendance requirements are. You might be surprised.

As for the training server, you won't get much one-on-one there either, but it isn't unlikely that a few more experienced pilots will drop in to help out.

Anyway, see you out there somewhere ;)

Gazehound · October 12, 2005

I expect the Thursday night setting will be a bunch of guys trying to figure out their ass from a hole in the ground, like me, and a couple guys who are flying around and possibly providing answers to the occasional question and not really having time to hold anyone's hand.

There could be more vets than students depending on the time you are flying at :icon_wink, plus this is on every week, or is planned to be.

NEODARK · October 12, 2005

and noobs should stop feeling ashamed they are noobs online , we all make stupid mistakes

it s just a game :)

It's not at all about being "ashamed" It's more about not feeling like listening to a more advanced player barking at you bacause you made an honest mistake.

At the begining I didnt feel like just jumping in to any server in hyperlobby just because of that. I know some of you say its not elitism, and I agree with that being the case with many of you. I know you are a great bunch of guys and I only started flying (like a month now).

But there are the few instances were a beginner joins the server and makes a simple mistake, then he proceeds to get flamed endlessly or outright booted from the server. I personally have never shot a friendly down in my short time online, but I've witnesed how those who do by mistake are treated.

Again, I know its only a few, and I don't judge everyone by the few ;)

It's just the presure a beginner has to face. That's why I'm offering what I am.

More so than the server MrWolf-Loskins is so kindly providing, as mine is on a more regular basis (about 5 days a week, if not 24/7 yet), and since we are all constructively learning there at the same time, we don't really say much if we make a mistake, we learn from it.

So again, to those interested, send me a PM, I will give you the info to join us. And cya online. (see my full post in page #2 of this thread)

To everyone else online, enjoy. We will be there soon :D

S77th-RYKE · October 12, 2005

It's not at all about being "ashamed" It's more about not feeling like listening to a more advanced player barking at you bacause you made an honest mistake.

At the begining I didnt feel like just jumping in to any server in hyperlobby just because of that. I know some of you say its not elitism, and I agree with that being the case with many of you. I know you are a great bunch of guys and I only started flying (like a month now).

But there are the few instances were a beginner joins the server and makes a simple mistake, then he proceeds to get flamed endlessly or outright booted from the server. I personally have never shot a friendly down in my short time online, but I've witnesed how those who do by mistake are treated.

Again, I know its only a few, and I don't judge everyone by the few ;)

It's just the presure a beginner has to face. That's why I'm offering what I am.

More so than the server MrWolf-Loskins is so kindly providing, as mine is on a more regular basis (about 5 days a week, if not 24/7 yet), and since we are all constructively learning there at the same time, we don't really say much if we make a mistake, we learn from it.

So again, to those interested, send me a PM, I will give you the info to join us. And cya online. (see my full post in page #2 of this thread)

To everyone else online, enjoy. We will be there soon :D

Way to go on providing a server Neodark !!

yeah I understand how you feel , I said noobs shouldn't feel ashamed for lack of a better word...

but it's true that the "not as noobs" should lighten up about mistakes .... like I said in my earlier post , most often those who go off and get all mad are noob themselves or are just in a bad mood :( , if they are disrespectfull , stay polite and warn an admin either in the particular server squad's forum or thru hyperlobby PM .

there are instances of team killing that are more frustrating then others though, I remember once , I'm RTBing, jammers off , nose cold, and this friendly is locking me for 5 minutes from 60 km out to close range , I typed in the team chat "friendly mig RTB, quit buddy lock " guy keeps locking me and shoots me down . :(

so yeah sometimes it is frustrating and that teamkiller shouldn't be flying online yet , he should go back to single player and the manual and learn to ID friend or foe .

But you will find that most flyers will be polite even if they are mad , we are lucky to have such fine people flying online .

Maulkin · October 12, 2005

Personally, I dont care if I make a mistake and I am really not ashamed to make them, being the perpetual n00b that I am. ;)

It's frustration that will make me give up trying for another few months. Frustration in not knowing what I am doing wrong, what I should be doing and not really knowing what questions to ask.

Thankfully the training tracks have improved considerably and so has the manual so I have come much farther this attempt than any of the other attempts combined. Hell, last night I even blew the hell out of a tank column with an A-10! Granted the way I found the tank column was that I blindly few right over them and their AA defenses blew the hell out of me and I had to respawn with a new A-10. Went back with a few IR-mavericks and a whole lot of cluster bombs. :)

Once again I'll be damned if I can get anything out of the briefing. I could not even figure out where I was taking off from. In single player I am accustomed to seeing my waypoints marked in white but that does not seem to be the case in multiplayer.

S77th-konkussion · October 12, 2005

There is a button at the top that displays the map with icons of what the tactical situation is. You can zoom right in there and see where the enemy is, where they are heading, etc etc. I will again say that one of the biggest things that hold learning back is not being able to look around w/out major effort. Getting killed over & over cause you can't follow or keep an eye on a vehicle, or aircraft SUCKS. I did that for about a day. Then went to the mouse, did that for about a week.. The first post I read about the track ir was a happy day indeed. The track ir will not only solve that by allowing the most natural cockpit view movement possible- but it means a lot less time on the keyboard, and more buttons to program on your flightstick. If your budget allows for a nice stick or a track ir get the track first. Expecting a rookie, or anyone, really...to manage all that S**T while struggling just to see enough to fly right is nuts.. GET ONE :)

Rastus · October 12, 2005

Dont be afraid to ask questions in hyperlobby. There is a bunch of very experienced pilots usually hanging around who were once noobs & understand what it's like. I am confident in saying that every one of these pilots are willing to help. Just ask. You may get 1 on 1 help or a bit of training, you may be told to look at a specific training track, but if you dont ask well.........

In hyperlobby we spend a fair amount of time helping people with technical questions already, and a lot of problems are fixed this way. Most of the people there do care about the community & want it to grow. So if you have any questions, if you were having trouble in that game you were just in, please ask, if nobody can help, ask again later when there are some other pilots logged in. You WILL get help.

Cheers

169th_Rastus

Battle_Rattle · October 13, 2005

Very true Rastus.....

I'm sort of revising what I started with...It's not really a hyperlobby problem... it really is a narrow scope of player i meant needed help. The ones that have trained (but are still new) and want to see what a human pilot will do when he's fired upon and how then the missle behaves... Firing observable missles at AI planes wont help you play online.

These same players are unlikely to know how to make a map and start a server..

Guy's my only point really was lets do everything we can possible to grow this community. :)

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