Controllers in DCS BS2 Messed Up

[VAF [136] Striker]

I did this short video hoping that someone out there can help me resolve this problem. I have the CH HOTAS setup that includes the USB Combat Stick, USB Pro Throttle and USB Pro Pedals.

 

I have many other simulators and this problem does not occur in any of them. This seems to be a problem that happens only in DCS products. I've been experiencing it in A10 and BS2 mainly.

 

I did replace the potentiometers as I thought it was logical to start with them first. I assumed that DCS might be more sensitive to controller input than other simulators and that they might be slightly worn.

 

You can see that the rudder and stick peg to the hard left and also the stick will peg hard forward as well. The small inputs on the stick and rudder are by me. If I move either of them slightly they will go back to center but after a few seconds they will go hard to one side again.

 

I'm desperate to fix this problem. I've been going around in circles for the longest time trying to figure it out and have reached a brick wall now figuratively. Any help would be appreciated.

 

You can see the video here, sorry for the dark video quality but the movement is still obvious:

 

http://youtu.be/z38Jkt-Uulk

 

I forgot to mention a couple other things. CH has software called "CH Control Manager" that allows you to create profiles that can combine all the separate controllers into one DirectX controller. I'm not using it as DCS recognizes separate controllers.

 

System Specs:

Intel Quad Core Q9650 3.0 Ghz

Dual ATI Radeon EAH 5770 Video Cards

8 GB Ram

Windows Professional 64 Bit

Edited June 18, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[Nate--IRL--]

Double check that Axis assignments aren't duplicated in the DCS options - for instance on my pedals the toe brakes are set as Aircraft pitch and roll by default. If I touch the pedal this will induce full left roll input, and or full back in pitch, due to the nature of the pedal input.

 

The solution is to make sure that pitch an roll are only assigned to your joystick.

 

Nate

[VAF [136] Striker]

OK, I checked and my controllers are not duplicated. In fact, I had deleted the keyboard commands for the axis controllers back when I set this up long ago. I had even deleted the duplicated axis controllers in the "Ka-50 Game" drop down so they're not duplicated there.

 

The thing that is bothering me is that all 3 controllers show up in their separate columns, but it shows "joy_x" and "joy_y" under the throttle column for my mini-stick that I use for the shval but it also show the same name for the axis under the combatstick for the x/y axis for pitch and roll. They are different controllers so I would think there's not a conflict here but are you stating something different?

 

I was going to take a screen shot but I can't find the file. Do you know what file the screen shots are stored in?

Edited June 18, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[Nate--IRL--]

Try C:\Users\<User Name>\Saved Games\DCS BS2\screenshots.

 

Nate

[PeterP]

please check again if you really where in the right "game-mode": real/game

 

If this doesn't help,

 

Have a look at this :

TROUBLESHOOTING - Help us helping you.

especially at posting #4

Edited June 18, 2012 by PeterP

[VAF [136] Striker]

Screenshot of my settings for axis'

 

[VAF [136] Striker]

please check again if you really where in the right "game-mode": Simulation/game

I run everything in full simulation mode and all my controllers are set in simulation mode.

[PeterP]

run "DX-Tweak" and examine your axis-behaviour and also run "Clear-calibration utility".

 

I know that this may sounds bogus - but it helped a lot folks with similar problems.

 

You find the tools over posting#4 in my last posting.

 

Do it even if you have doubt's if this will help you - at least this will not hurt/harm your settings.

 

Also attach a DxDiag of your system and I'm very interested in the logs/track of the video you have posted.

We are able to look into it and examine the time-stamps to see what was causing the movements .

 

If you don't have a track for it - just try to reproduce it again and post.

 

A instruction where you find the logs is in the link I have posted above.

Edited June 18, 2012 by PeterP

[VAF [136] Striker]

run "DX-Tweak" and examine your axis-behaviour and also run "Clear-calibration utility".

 

I know that this my sounds bogus - but it helped a lot folks with similar problems.

I'll give it a try. I'm willing to try anything at this point. I'm sick and tired of having this problem after having spent so much on everything that I have to enjoy running this stuff. It's basically un-flyable at this point.

[Nate--IRL--]

Note that there is still one device not shown in that screenshot - use the scroll bar at the bottom to move over to it.

 

If there are no conflict with that last device than I'm stumped.

 

Nate

[PeterP]

I can feel your desperation...!

 

Just for the record - your axis settings are legit!

 

Also post the track/log/DxDiag - I will have a look at it and I will report back if I see something suspicious.

 

If I can't help, at least the Devs will have all info what may goes wrong.

 

Also try everything without the CH-profile-managment active to rule-out that it is a bug in the scripting that causes the problem.

 

 

edit:

 

Good point!:

Note that there is still one device not shown in that screenshot - use the scroll bar at the bottom to move over to it.

 

If there are no conflict with that last device than I'm stumped.

 

Nate

Edited June 18, 2012 by PeterP

[VAF [136] Striker]

Note that there is still one device not shown in that screenshot - use the scroll bar at the bottom to move over to it.

Yeah, that's just the mouse column. It doesn't occupy any of the same control axis' as any of the CH controllers.

[VAF [136] Striker]

I can feel your desperation...!

 

Just for the record - your axis settings are legit!................Also try everything without the CH-profile-managment active to rule-out that it is a bug in the scripting that causes the problem.

Not using the CH Manager software at all. I only use it when I have to combine controllers into one DX device for in old sims like Falcon.

[VAF [136] Striker]

run "DX-Tweak" and examine your axis-behaviour and also run "Clear-calibration utility".

OK, I ran both of these and no effect. It didn't say anything about unplugging the controllers when I ran the "Clear Calibration" utility though so I did it with them plugged in. I don't think it would make any sense unplugging them as all the drivers are loaded through the manager and they disappear from my windows controller list when I unplug them. Do you know which is the correct way to clear everything?

 

Also, I ran the DX Tweak utility and my controllers are incredibly smooth. I used to work on factory CD production equipment and used to test pots on oscilloscopes and these compare what that kind of quality so I am convinced that it's not in the control devices.

 

I know how to run DXdiag but it creates a huge file so posting the whole thing here is not really possible. You mentioned a "track/log/DxDiag" file location but I can't seem to find that. Can you point me to that location or explain what you mean. Is there some form of truncated DX log file you need?

Edited June 18, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[PeterP]

OK - I see you know what you are talking of :

Also, I ran the DX Tweak utility and my controllers are incredibly smooth. I used to work on some high end production equipment and used to test pots on oscilloscopes and these compare what that kind of quality so I am convinced that it's not in the control devices.

______________

 

Do you know which is the correct way to clear everything?

Run this "Clear Calibration" > re-plug every controller and move all axis from min to max - it's just like you have connected them for the first time to your computer and the DX level learns what your axis are capable.

(all written up in the readme of this tool;))

 

 

 

I don't meant to post your DXDiag in a posting - just attach it : >advanced reply > "manage attachments > load the TXT up.

 

When no spiking/dirty calibration can cause it , we really need the log-files/track when this is happening in-game.

>>> TROUBLESHOOTING - Help us helping you. > post #1

Where to find;

• All CONFIG should be found at your userprofile, such as "C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS"
  You may also find it directly using "Windows Explorer" and browse to the "YourName\Saved Games".
  
• LOGS; dcs.log and me.log in: C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\Logs
  
• MP LOGS: C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\Logs\net-server.log
  
• CRASH files: C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\Logs
  
• SCREENSHOT after PRINTSCREEN; C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\ScreenShots
  
• MP TRACKS; C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\Tracks\Multiplayer
  
• SP TRACKS; You need to save it when you exit from the mission - at a location where you choose
  
• INPUT config; C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS\Config\Input
  

in detail :

Start a mission like in the video > Do some movements until "it" happens > stop mission and "save track" in the debriefing screen" > than post the track/log.

 

 

edit:

I hope someone else will jump in for more guidance - as I won't be able to make deeper test about it for at last the next 24 hours from no on.

Edited June 18, 2012 by PeterP

[VAF [136] Striker]

OK, I uploaded my DxDiag.txt and the track for the last mission I ran. The controllers wigged out so bad this time that I crashed into the ground at the end. Please let me know if anything else is needed.

[PeterP]

The logfile to this track. (?)

 

>>

 

• LOGS; dcs.log and me.log in: C:\Users\<yourname>\Saved Games\DCS( XXX) \Logs
  

- just edit your last posting - so everything is in one place and can't mixed up! ;)

[VAF [136] Striker]

Sorry, wasn't sure what one you needed. I also included another track file after I cleared the calibration going by the instructions. It messed up so bad this time I flipped over on the helipad. It wouldn't allow me to upload the log files so I had to zip them. BTW, didn't see your message about editing the same post. Trying to do too many things at the same time.

Edited June 18, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[VAF [136] Striker]

OK, I believe I've figured out what's going on here. I run a bunch of different sims and I had left Crossfire on without realizing it. When I disable Crossfire the problem doesn't go away completely but it's reduced to a point where it doesn't make it completely un-flyable. Apparently the Radeon drivers cause all sorts of glitches that I wasn't aware of.

 

I decided to switch back to Nvidia back a few months ago and I finally purchased a GTX580 from ebay a few days ago. I will have it by Wednesday and as soon as I get it installed and running I will report my findings back here.

[PeterP]

Glad you could figure out how to calm it down a little.

But your description of the problem sounds more than strange to me - because I never heard of something like this and I use ATI/AMD since several years now .

 

I have right now seven controllers attached with a total of 26 different axis's ...- Are you sure that the AMD drivers are causing this ?

Don't get me wrong - I don't want to tell that you make something up - do you have a source where this problem is described ?

 

It's just because I heard the first time that GPU drivers mess up the axis of a controller. And I really think that problems like this would be widespread if this is true.

 

What comes to my mind if I read your description is that there might be a voltage problem on your motherboard/power supply - it could be that some elcos are brocken and the 5V bus on the USB is causing this.

 

Please tell us how the controllers are connected (powered USB-HUB or directly)?

 

Is your PSU sufficient for your system

(DCS can suck a lot of power up to the limits) ?

 

PS: I start now to examine your files.

Edited June 19, 2012 by PeterP

[PeterP]

Hi Scottyman,

 

I had a look at your files and track - and I have to say that I couldn't see something that is unusual.

- but this can be caused by my insufficient knowledge to examine the logs/track-data.:)

 

And your track may show the problem - but next time please use a mission where you placed yourself at the ramp and only move the controllers that are not working (just like in your video) - because the track-data got cluttered by your start-up and it makes revisiting harder than it should be.

Further: using than also a heavy scripted mission as test-bet is not helping either.

:) - I should have been clearer wheat a "good bug-track" is.

 

 

Another idea that comes to my mind is to start DCS windowed and having DxTweak open at the same time to see if this unintended movement is really caused by your controller . also open the control-indicator in DCS to double-check [RCtrl+Enter] - as you say : no other sim shows this behaviour.

 

So we can rule-out if this problem happens only inside DCS or already at the DirectX level.

 

 

Like this:

Edited June 19, 2012 by PeterP

[VAF [136] Striker]

.....it could be that some elcos are brocken and the 5V bus on the USB is causing this.

 

Please tell us how the controllers are connected?

 

Is your PSU sufficient for your system?

1) OK, I did think about this possibility but I believe that this would be reflected in the controller axis displays and I would see some spiking going on. This was also a top of the line Asus Rampage Extreme motherboard and it monitors all the voltages so I can see them listed in the bios and they're stable.

 

I did have a power problem at my house here but the power company came out and fixed it. I was getting really bad drops and spikes. They repaired the neutral on the pole and since then the power has been perfectly stable at 118 volts. However, I do run all my computer equipment on battery backup systems and the one for my gaming system is an APC Smart UPS 1000 which mean that it stabilizes the output voltage to +/-5v so this system was never at risk.

 

2) All my controllers are connected directly to the motherboard. I do not use USB hubs because I've known that they can cause problems. (edit) I did check the power levels in the BIOS a couple times. I sat there and monitored them for about 10 minutes each time and the voltage never wavered from 5.04v for the USB circuit. I know that the voltage monitors are very accurate and working as I can see the other levels fluctuating slightly.

 

3) PSU is a Coolmax 1000 watt with double 12 volt rails and was top of the line when purchased new from Newegg. When I configured the system I calculated that the actual power draw at full tilt would only be using about 75% of the available power.

 

Additional Notes: I've been running a scripted campaign (stated by PeterP) and it's been running flawlessly now. I'm still going to move ahead with the swapping out of the video card tomorrow and I will post the results.

Edited June 20, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[VAF [136] Striker]

OK, finally reporting back on this issue.

 

Video cards and drivers are definitely not causing the problem. It did the same thing with the Nvidia card and my Radeon cards.

 

I'm getting really irritated about this problem now because I love doing these sims but the controls screwing up really burn me. I don't understand why I'm having this problem in DCS stuff and nothing else.

 

I did a simple unscripted mission this morning which is basically a take off, fly the waypoints and land. You can see in the track that the controls messed up badly before I even took off. The Cyclic jams hard to forward and starts me cruising across the tarmac and the pedals jam hard left several times.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there's a problem with a microprocessor in my control setup. They're fairly old but they've been working fine for many years now. I'm starting to wonder if something inside of DCS is causing them to fail.

 

I've uploaded the track along with all the logs updated today.

 

Additional Notes: OK PeterP, I've completed all the testing I believe you wanted me to do and I've come to the conclusion that this is a bug in the sim and not a problem with my controllers. The reason I say this is that I ran DCS in windowed mode like you suggested with DX Tweak running as well and I can clearly see the pedals move hard left on their own in the sim but not in DX tweak. Also, when I purposely move the rudder pedals, the indicators in DX Tweak clearly show that they move very smoothly. There are no spikes or spontaneous control movements outside of the sim.

 

I would really like any of you developers for DCS if you're reading this thread to please take a serious look at this problem I'm having. I know from what PeterP stated, you haven't run across this problem before but I may have a unique situation. I have tried increasing and decreasing the dead band in all my axis and it hasn't resolved this problem. Please let me know if there's any additional information I can provide you to aid in diagnosing it!

Edited June 23, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[BigfootMSR]

Not to sound too over simplified, but I had a problem similar to this in A-10. I would be flying along and suddenly, a hard left roll that I could not overcome because the sim was keeping the hard left rudder and hard left on the stick. I cleared up the issue by making sure the arrow keys for the keyboard were unbound. Dunno if it helps in this case, but you could give it a try.

[VAF [136] Striker]

...........I cleared up the issue by making sure the arrow keys for the keyboard were unbound.

OK, I checked and I know what you're referring to. I had previously deleted any key strokes that were associated with all of the axis so the arrow keys are not being used any more.

Edited June 23, 2012 by 75th-VFS-Striker