Graphics cards / multiple displays

[JCook]

I've been asking these video card / mulit-monitor questions in several different forums...

 

While I'm building my A10 pit I am also working on an F16 pit for Falcon 4 BMS. The Falcon cockpit seems to be an easier build than the A10 - fewer panels, gauges switches and fewer displays needed. So even though my questions here are related to the Falcon pit they will be the same questions I need to resolve for the A10 displays.

 

All the systems I've ever built have been single monitor systems. For Falcon 4 BMS here are the displays I need to output to:

(1) Main display 28" LCD - In the future the main display will be a projector

(2) MFD displays TFT LCD's (http://store.earthlcd.com/OF-8-0-VGA...=7&category=12)

(1) RWR display TFT 5.6" LCD (http://store.earthlcd.com/OF-5-6-VGA)

(1) Instrument display 10.4" LCD (http://store.earthlcd.com/OF-10-4-VGA)

 

So that is 5 outputs. There are at least two more small TFT LCDs that I can add - but I should probably get a solution for 5 displays first. I'll be using the ThrustMaster MFDs in the panel.

I'm ready to build a new dedicated PC for Falcon 4 BMS and I'm struggling to understand which graphics card(s) to get.

 

Here are my system specs - so far:

================================

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop

MB: ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel

RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Redline 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

HD: Western Digital VelociRaptor WD2500HHTZ 250GB 10000 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s

CASE: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 Advanced Blue Edition RC-932-KKN3-GP Black Steel ATX Full

PWR: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE

VIDEO: Galaxy 67NPH6DV5ZVX GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP

OS Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM

 

The monitors will be different sizes and different resolutions. From what I've learned alread an SLI or crossfire configuration is not something I will need. good performance, flexible confiuration of the screens and lots of output are what I need from the graphics card.

 

What video card configuration would you use for this?

I'd prefer advice from those who have actually implmented multi-card / monitor setup - how they did it and what kind of performance and compromises had to be made. I've read the spec sheets and the marketing stuff on the cards I need some hands on advice on this stuff.

 

Q: Would two nVidia 670 cards (2GB each / 4 output) get me 8 outputs (4+4)?

Q: Do I need more than one graphics card?

Q: Most of the high end cards have 2GB - is that enough to do what I want?

Q: Which brand/model card(s) would be able to support this many displays?

Q: What configuration should I be going for? number of cards - amount of RAM - ports per card.

Q: For multiple cards do I need to be in Crossfire or SLI configuration?

 

Have you found that video outputs on a card cumulative? For example if one card has 4 outputs and I add a second similar card do I then have 8 usable outputs?

 

Thanks for the help

[metalnwood]

Your CPU is good for what you want to do but there is no doubt that the ATI cards are offering more outputs right now.

 

I am running 5 monitors off my ATI 7970. Thats 4x1920x1080 monitors and the CDU at 640x480. The leaves me with one port free on this card that supports 6 outputs.

 

The 7970 comes with 3GB memory and I think there is a4GB coming if not already here.

 

That doesnt matter so much for you if you are only using one display for your main graphics. For triple screen it would be more beneficial.

 

For multiple cards you cannot run crossfire if you want to use all of their combined ports. If you want to run 8 monitors you need more than 1 graphics card or some esoteric mix like a th2go running off on eof the ports and then feeding two or three monitors.

 

When you put more than one card in you can use their ports as well, so 3+3 = 6.

[metalnwood]

PS, I have got a couple displays from here.

 

http://www.good-display.com/products_list/&pmcId=3d702ab4-7549-440f-9643-c4f495154024&comp_stats=comp-FrontProductsCategory_show01-1299132101301.html

 

They turned up fine, working well and no problems. I think the prices would be a lot better.

[JCook]

Thanks for the info. So I would have no problem displaying on different sizes and resolutions? All of that is configurable? Is it fairly easy to configure?

 

Can you clarify your CDU monitor - what size LCD are you using for that? I thought I had read that the ATI cards needed the monitors to be the same size and resolution for the eyefinity solution to work. That would be a problem since my setup is for a cockpit build and I'll need to use 8" monitors for the MFDs and even smaller LCDs for the RWR. All these displays will be mounted in panels.

 

The more outputs the better - 6 is good...12 would be even better :-)

I don't suppose with 2 cards the RAM would be cumulative -

 

I don't think the Falcon 4 BMS sim is as demanding CPU or GPU wise as DCS A10C - so how is the performance you are getting with the 7990?

 

Anyone else have any experience with the ATI or nVidia multi display solutions - especially when using different sized displays in a pit?

 

Thanks

[metalnwood]

I am just running the 7970 single gpu.

 

I have my setup framerate limited to 30frames with everything on high and it sits there most of the time. Sometimes on the ground it gets lower, closer to 20 on occasion but in the air its always on 30.

 

For my CDU I am using a 4" screen I got from the crowd I linked to.

 

You will not be able to use eyefinity to get the kind of setup that you want. I dont think nvidia surround will do it for you either. You will have to run DCS in windowed mode or use softth as I have just been playing around with.

 

The ram on gpus is not cumulative I am afraid :)

 

BMS is far less gpu intensive than DCS so expect your frames to be higher there.

[metalnwood]

On the softth thing. It pretty much gives you unlimited options for running on different sized monitor with different resolutions.

 

I just moved my 3x42" screens to have the side ones in portrait mode so I have

 

 

1080x1920 1920x1080 1080x1920

 

1920x1080

 

640x480

 

Here was a quick vid I did trying it out.

 

[JCook]

I think Windowed mode for F4 BMS also - but that is okay. How am I going to get enough output? Surely someone is doing this and had success with 5 or more displays.

 

I have no problem adding a second card for the additional inputs - but if the card is only 2GB (nVidia) will it support the additional ports of the second card?

[metalnwood]

The eyefinity 6 card is the best way to go I think, that will give you your five screens for now.

 

Add another one later if you need to. What are the other three screens? I can't think what two of them would be?

 

Edit: displayport hubs might not be that far away so with an adaptor or two you could run more monitors off a single card with one of those.

Edited July 17, 2012 by metalnwood

[JCook]

The possbile internal pit displays in F4 BMS would be

1) RWR - 5"

2) Left MFD - 8"

3) Center Instruments (AS, Alt, AI, AOA and VVI) - 10"

4) HSI - 5"

5) Right MFD - 8"

6) Standby AI -3"

 

External dislays

1) HUD display (internal)

2) Front LCD or projecter

3) Left projector

4) Right projector

[metalnwood]

Your other option if you want to drive so many displays is to spilt them over multiple machines.

 

Gauges could be on a secondary less powerful machine while the main machine will still need to drive the outside view, mfd's, rwr, hud.

 

It's pretty ambitious though and I would think you could get away with all of them except for the HUD and use the in game HUD.

 

That would have the main machine driving 6 displays, 2xMFD , 3xviews, 1xRWR. I would think that your frames would be OK but the rest would have to be exported via helios to another machine.

 

Are you sure that they would all hide behind a facade OK? I doubt you would get the same layout as the real A10 and there are no engine gauges?

 

Thats

[metalnwood]

Ahh, I just saw that your monitor layout is specifically for the f16.

 

Have you thought about running the main displays on helios so that you can runn all the different gauges for the a10 and f16? It also comes in handy when you are playing anouther game that doesnt export gauges etc.

 

Here is another quick vid running with a 22" touchscreen in the center for games that dont export their gauges.

 

 

you can still touch the controls, flick switches etc.

[JCook]

I plan on using Helios for the A10 and F16, but as an interface between the physical switches and the software mappings. In F4 BMS I think just about everything is done with keymappings - its seems like the A10c is more complex in terms of switches and panels.

 

The BMS F16 program does allow extracting all of the displays - though some should be done with a third part extractor for performance sake.

 

I don't think I'll need the graphics abilities of Helios - but I will try and use the interface part of it.

 

Haven't decided yet if this particular PC build will also be used for the A10 pit - I'm leaning toward just the F16 and then see what vid technology happens in the next year. There are alot of analog gauges in the A10C and to cover all those with monitors is going to be much more complex thatn the F16.

[Weltensegler]

Remember that the video memory gets very important the more displays you connect/resolution you run!

And video memory doesn't add up!

So rather go for a 4GB card than 2x2GB

(dual GPU cards also have effectively half as much as they say since its split)

DCSW on high settings 3xHD pluss some gauges on the 4th and helios on 4th and 5th brings you to ~3,5GB video memory!

 

Rule of thumb is 1GB/HD resolution where a game is running, some a bit less some a bit more.

For DCS my estimate is ~900MB/HD

Edited July 17, 2012 by Weltensegler

[PeterP]

 

I have no problem adding a second card for the additional inputs - but if the card is only 2GB (nVidia) will it support the additional ports of the second card?

 

 

Disabuse your self from the assumption that your primary card can use the ram of the second card for the render !

 

Only the Primary card does all the workload. - you don't benefit from a second one in the render processing at all.

 

When you need a second card just to get more outputs for additional monitors: Use just a cheap PCI-E card instead a expensive one.

 

Reminder: the outputs of the second card will anyway be useless if you run SLI/Crossfire.

 

So no need to think about using the secondary outputs when in this mode.

- and on the other hand -

You can't use SLI/Crossfire when in windowed mode.

 

...

 

See - So only count in The V-ram of your primary card when planning this setup.

Edited July 17, 2012 by PeterP

[AMVI_Rider]

Disabuse your self from the assumption that your primary card can use the ram of the second card for the render !

 

Agree, this is a wrong (and common) assumption!

 

Only the Primary card does all the workload. - you don't benefit from a second one in the render processing at all.

 

When you need a second card just to get more outputs for additional monitors: Use just a cheap PCI-E card instead a expensive one.

 

Reminder: the outputs of the second card will anyway be useless if you run SLI/Crossfire.

 

This is not completely true: I have a 2 x 560Ti (sadly only 1GB only per card) in SLI and a three monitor setup. Both cards are running 80% of GPU load at full clock frequency in both DCSW and DCS World (windowed mode).

 

The point is that Nvidia drivers limit you to one of these configurations:

 

1 Non SLI + 4 monitors of any type/res (that is what you were talking about).

2 SLI + Single monitor.

3 SLI + 3D Surround - 3 monitors of same type/res (where supported).

4 SLI + Dual monitor of any type/res (that's me: main + right MFCD).

 

I also have a third monitor (left MFCD) attached to my Ivy Bridge integrated card (so to say, the third video card in the system).

 

So my advice is to buy a SLI setup to boost performance as the rendering happens in the two cards working toghether. If you want a lot of monitors a cheap card could be the solution, but you can have it both at the same time.

In all this, PCIe lanes usage should be taken into account, but it's quite too much to discuss right now.

 

A note about SLI: to obtain a real performance boost in a SLI setup, a little tweaking of stock SLI profile is needed.

 

That's my expereince, but AMD/Crossfire situation could be different (despite AMD's better implementation of multimonitor stuff).

[JCook]

Peter

So if I get a high performance card for primary and a less expensive second card for addional outputs that might be the way to go. I'm assuming I have control over which card is primary.

 

I've thought about a 2nd supporting pc to run some displays for Falcon4 BMS and I need to do some more research there. Thats a potential route to take. Not sure if Helios can assist with that.

 

In any case it looks like I need alot of vRAM...

[celticcoho]

The eyefinity 6 card is the best way to go I think, that will give you your five screens for now.

 

Add another one later if you need to. What are the other three screens? I can't think what two of them would be?

 

Edit: displayport hubs might not be that far away so with an adaptor or two you could run more monitors off a single card with one of those.

 

I have 2 eyevinity 6 cards, running 6 screens, but all on one card, I have another 6 to go, if not crossfired! see my sig.:thumbup:

[Weltensegler]

I have 2 eyevinity 6 cards, running 6 screens, but all on one card, I have another 6 to go, if not crossfired! see my sig.:thumbup:

I thought for a moment you're doing it again :) but then I saw we wrote it almost at the same time :)

 

In any case it looks like I need alot of vRAM

You'll be fine with 4GB on your primary card in DCS!

And for BMS probably with 2GB...any card that can run Minecraft :-p ...just kidding