Ракеты в DCS

[Chizh]

3 часа назад, GGTharos сказал:

Let me know if you are unable to access any of these:

 

This one is for time-based algorithm to detect helicopter blades in low SNR (basically in high noise, long distance) ... applies mostly to AWACS and is a modern thing IMHO (2000's), similar but not the same technique is used for early detection of low RCS things like cruise missiles.

https://www.dst.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/publications/documents/DST-Group-TR-3481.pdf

 

This discusses a computer model of helicopter RCS, including rotor blades:  https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a545676.pdf

 

Another PDF with similar information:  https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/21/1/271/pdf

 

And another source: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/20/7/2097/htm

 

Doppler Signature Measurements of an Mi-24 Hind-D Helicopter at 92 GHz:  https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA351581.pdf

 

Tiger helicopter effect of rotor configuration on RCS:  https://ojs.unsw.adfa.edu.au/index.php/juer/article/viewFile/469/303

 

 

Combat account from the pilot (I have seen more detailed, but I can only search for so long):  https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0193bennett/

 

 

Thank you for information. Do you have info that AWACS is capable to detect helicopters by rotors?

 

1 час назад, Teknetinium сказал:

Chiz, ED had time to implement lost of lock if rolled below 1500m, why dont ED find time for something that improves the situation for Su-27/33. That Radar turns off and switch to EOS as soon a target is notching making ER-27 Lose track should be possible to fix in order to make it closer to RL.   

This task is waiting for a time room to development. Please wait.

 

Цитата

 

Chiz, could you give me one example where Su-33 broke its wings? Or that it is Possible to break Su-33 wing with G limiter on.

 

This question is not related to this topic. Please do not need an offtop.

 

[BBCRF]

1 hour ago, Teknetinium said:

Чиз, не могли бы вы привести мне пример, когда Су-33 сломал крылья? Или что можно сломать крыло Су-33 при включенном ограничителе G.

При включенном ОПР это нельзя сделать

[GGTharos]

1 hour ago, Chizh said:

Thank you for information. Do you have info that AWACS is capable to detect helicopters by rotors?

 

No info that specifically states this for E2/3.  I see it as a point being mentioned for newer AWACS radar, just before or just past 2000.   I guess it depends on exactly what technology level you wish to simulate.  According to what I have seen detecting slow speed and hovering helicopters was not impossible for AWACS with digital radar, but it was a challenge and there were developments to improve this.  In some cases a special scan mode was implemented on other AWACS.

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by GGTharos

[Chizh]

9 минут назад, GGTharos сказал:

 

No info that specifically states this for E2/3.  I see it as a point being mentioned for newer AWACS radar, just before or just past 2000.   I guess it depends on exactly what technology level you wish to simulate.  According to what I have seen detecting slow speed and hovering helicopters was not impossible for AWACS with digital radar, but it was a challenge and there were developments to improve this.  In some cases a special scan mode was implemented on other AWACS.

 

 

I have no doubt that this is a solvable task for modern radars, but I'm not sure if the AWACS of the 20th century were capable of this.

 

[GGTharos]

5 minutes ago, Chizh said:

I have no doubt that this is a solvable task for modern radars, but I'm not sure if the AWACS of the 20th century were capable of this.

 

According to information I am looking at and IMHO, I would say 'not reliably'.  If they are digital they have a chance, if analog no.   All the information I am reading suggests that robust (ie. reliable) capability to do this comes after 2002 - research a decade before, installation of capabilities that would enable reliable detection of slow/hovering helicopters is completed by 2008 for various E-3 versions (I have not looked at other AWACS).  So I agree, you're right.

Edited February 17, 2021 by GGTharos

[Hazar-sakh]

13.01.2021 в 19:20, Chizh сказал:

В DCS представлены все основные самолеты и ракет на момент до 2010 года. Вы можете моделировать любой конфликт по своему желанию выбором соответствующих ЛА и вооружений.

 

 

Цитата

Еще до завершения испытаний первых двух опытных самолетов, по заказу ВВС России КнААПО в начале 2003 г. приступило к серийной модернизации строевых истребителей Су-27. В результате, уже 26 декабря 2003 г. первые пять модернизированных самолетов Су-27СМ были переданы ВВС и совершили перелет на аэродром Центра боевого применения и переучивания летного состава ВВС в Липецке.

 

Цитата

До 2009 года поступило в войска 45 машин, к 2011 году ещё 12 (задел от экспортных Су-27СК, работы начаты в 2008).

Пэйн я ног Су-27СМ не чувствую...

[Ватрушка]

1 hour ago, Hazar-sakh said:

Пэйн я ног Су-27СМ не чувствую...

Чуйка не доросла. Адекваты знают что идентичные боевые возможности Су-27СМ реализованы под китайским флагом с апом в виде несуществующих Р-77 в 00-х ВВС РФ.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Ватрушка

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

1 hour ago, Ватрушка said:

Чуйка не доросла. Адекваты знают что идентичные боевые возможности Су-27СМ реализованы под китайским флагом с апом в виде несуществующих Р-77 в 00-х ВВС РФ.

 

Dunno how you can say a Su-27SK is interchangeable with a Su-27SM1.

 

China literally dropped its follow on orders of Su-27SK' to instead receive more Su-30MKK/MK2s which have mostly the same avionics suite and improved radars & RWR of the Su-27SM, clearly not a case of them being the same plane effectively.

 

On that note China was an early adopter of that modernization, why so few units from the PLA's inventory?

Edited February 18, 2021 by TaxDollarsAtWork

[Ватрушка]

1 hour ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

Dunno how you can say a Su-27SK is interchangeable with a Su-27SM1.

 

China literally dropped its follow on orders of Su-27SK' to instead receive more Su-30MKK/MK2s which have mostly the same avionics suite and improved radars & RWR of the Su-27SM, clearly not a case of them being the same plane effectively.

 

On that note China was an early adopter of that modernization, why so few units from the PLA's inventory?

 

Su-27SK no have AMRAAM. J-11A and Su-27SM have out of the box support. J-11 chinese equivalent SM, produced 300 units(~100 J-11A), 3 times more than the Su-30 in China(~100).

Edited February 18, 2021 by Ватрушка

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

13 minutes ago, Ватрушка said:

Su-27SK no have AMRAAM. J-11A and Su-27SM have out of the box support. J-11 chinese equivalent SM, produced 300 units, 3 times more than the Su-30 in China.

No RuAF or PLAAF Flanker has AMRAAMs, I am not quite sure what you mean by this.

If you want to say the J-11B is equivalent to the 27SM fair enough I suppose but that is not the one in game.

That one uses indigenous Chinese missiles only.

 

The J-11A in DCS is just a home built Su-27SK using the usual complement of 90s Russian missiles and the RVV AE.

As for the Su-30MKK/MK2 they operate about a little over one hundred of them.

A smaller quantity yes but not an insignificant amount this doesn't detract from them being put into service as a result of being superior to the SK and its still a sizeable fleet.

 

You can read more about their reasoning here

https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/Documents/stratperspective/china/ChinaPerspectives-4.pdf

 

Other countries have opted for MKKs and SKMs for similar reasons.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by TaxDollarsAtWork

[Hazar-sakh]

3 часа назад, Ватрушка сказал:

Чуйка не доросла. Адекваты знают что идентичные боевые возможности Су-27СМ реализованы под китайским флагом с апом в виде несуществующих Р-77 в 00-х ВВС РФ.

 

Странные у вас адекваты, которые считают, что у J-11A боевые возможности идентичны Су-27СМ.
Если, по-вашему, камень преткновения всех красных это Р-77, то вы узко смотрите на вещи.

 

[Ватрушка]

  

36 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

No RuAF or PLAAF Flanker has AMRAAMs, I am not quite sure what you mean by this.

If you want to say the J-11B is equivalent to the 27SM fair enough I suppose but that is not the one in game.

That one uses indigenous Chinese missiles only.

 

The J-11A in DCS is just a home built Su-27SK using the usual complement of 90s Russian missiles and the RVV AE.

As for the Su-30MKK/MK2 they operate about a little over one hundred of them.

A smaller quantity yes but not an insignificant amount this doesn't detract from them being put into service as a result of being superior to the SK and its still a sizeable fleet.

 

You can read more about their reasoning here

https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/Documents/stratperspective/china/ChinaPerspectives-4.pdf

 

Other countries have opted for MKKs and SKMs for similar reasons.

 

 

Su-27SK no have R-77 according to flight manual, unlike J-11A/Su-27SM. SM no have new radar, used old H001-family cassegrain-technology in 2000-s(!).

 

34 minutes ago, Hazar-sakh said:

Странные у вас адекваты, которые считают, что у J-11A боевые возможности идентичны Су-27СМ.
Если, по-вашему, камень преткновения всех красных это Р-77, то вы узко смотрите на вещи.

В рамках ГС3 и его трехкнопочного гемплея нет никакого смысла в 3-х МФД в которые нельзя тыкать, а Р-77 работает одинаково не зависимо от носителя.

[BBCRF]

4 hours ago, Ватрушка said:

Чуйка не доросла. Адекваты знают что идентичные боевые возможности Су-27СМ реализованы под китайским флагом с апом в виде несуществующих Р-77 в 00-х ВВС РФ.

 

Ну да сейчас бы сравнивать Су-27СК с СМ это две разные машины

[Ватрушка]

11 minutes ago, BBCRF said:

Ну да сейчас бы сравнивать Су-27СК с СМ это две разные машины

Чем будут отличаться Су-27СМ от J-11A в рамках ГС3?

[Hazar-sakh]

16 минут назад, Ватрушка сказал:

SM no have new radar, used old H001-family cassegrain-technology in 2000-s(!).

С начала 1990-х гг. в НИИП велись работы по радиолокационным системам с ФАР для новых модификаций истребителей семейства Су-27. Базовый вариант Су-27, поступавший на вооружение с 1985 г., оснащался разработанным в институте радиолокационным прицельным комплексом РЛПК-27 с антенной Кассегрена. Модернизированные варианты этого комплекса с расширенными боевыми возможностями в режимах «воздух–воздух» и «воздух–поверхность» нашли применение на многоцелевых истребителях Су-30МКК, Су-30МК2, Су-30М2, Су-27СМ, Су-27СКМ и др., широко поставлявшихся как на экспорт, так и в отечественные Вооруженные силы.

Ссылка (стр. 55)

Так имеет СМ новый радар или не имеет?

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

8 minutes ago, Ватрушка said:

  

Su-27SK no have R-77 according to flight manual, unlike J-11A/Su-27SM. SM no have new radar, used old H001-family cassegrain-technology in 2000-s(!).

 

В рамках ГС3 и его трехкнопочного гемплея нет никакого смысла в 3-х МФД в которые нельзя тыкать, а Р-77 работает одинаково не зависимо от носителя.

Re read my post it states the J-11A has the RVV AE in addition to the usual RuAF Su-27S weapons.

 

It doesn't use the exact same N001E found in the Su-27SK, the 27SM1 & 30MKK use the N001VE with improved detection as a result of the french processor replacing the obsolescent Ts100 and adds new modes such as MTI.

 

Aside from that the plane has a better RWR. The L-150 Pastel which has interesting utility and cohesion with ARMs in the same fashion the ALR-67v3 on the F/A-18C in DCS does on an MFD (Think EW page)

 

For air to ground the plane would also have new guided missiles and bombs, such as EO Bombs, EO guided Missiles such as Kh-29Ts and Kh-59Ms, and ARM Kh-31Ps in addition to all the unguided stuff

[Chizh]

 

28 минут назад, Hazar-sakh сказал:

Так имеет СМ новый радар или не имеет?

 

СМ имеет старый радар Н001. Иногда упоминают про обходной канал для Р-77.

 

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

18 minutes ago, Chizh said:

 

 

СМ имеет старый радар Н001. Иногда упоминают про обходной канал для Р-77.

 

What makes you say the Su-27SM has the same 1980s N001 and not an upgraded N001V

[BBCRF]

47 minutes ago, Ватрушка said:

Чем будут отличаться Су-27СМ от J-11A в рамках ГС3?

Применение ракет В-П,а также более форсированным движком

[Teknetinium]

4 minutes ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

What makes you say the Su-27SM has the same 1980s N001 and not an upgraded N001V

They should have new EOS as well and updated engines with 15% more drag and better fuel efficiency.   

Edited February 18, 2021 by Teknetinium

[Chizh]

2 минуты назад, Teknetinium сказал:

They should have new EOS as well. 

OLS is the same.

[Teknetinium]

1 minute ago, Chizh said:

OLS is the same.

SM3 as well? 

[Chizh]

3 минуты назад, Teknetinium сказал:

SM3 as well? 

I have no information that the OLS was changed, as well as the radar.

[Teknetinium]

MKI use OLS-30 at least, I would assume SM3 use OLS-35, I think it should be possible to see by pics. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Teknetinium

[ZHeN]

Su-27SK->Su-27SM->Su-30MKI

what a mess in your head, Tek

Su-30MKI's OLS-30 has nothing to do with Su-27SM/SM3

the latter both have same old OLS-27