Proper procedures for Main Gear Landing?

[Yo-Yo]

Keep your descent rate equal to or above the following pic and you'll be fine, with no need to jam the stick forward to make her stick.

 

 

Any more and she'll bounce.

 

The idea is that it's good starting point to train the stick movement - if you have low vertical speed you can move the stick more and more forward finding the maximal safe amount of it. I.e. the lower limit is zero for this movement. If the vertical speed is higher the lower limit for no-bouncing exists for sticking the palne properly.,

 

After you begin to feel how hard the stick can be pushed you will stick the plane even at higher vertical speed.

[Tailgate]

Thanks for posting that track, Weta43. It seems like it's more "feel" than numbers, There's a definite "Sweet Spot". I'm just beginning to find it.

 

I also figured out that the Airspeed Indicator shows MPH and the F2 view shows Knots and that accounted for the difference in the values. For example 130 MPH = 113 kts.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Tailgate

[Weta43]

Only use the numbers of the youtube url after the v= and then wrap that in youtube brackets.

 

Example as per your vid above (minus spaces):

 

[ youtube]3YXnH43D6c0[/ youtube]

 

Thanks :)

[Tailgate]

Unfortunately I couldn't play your track due to the transfer bug. Your plane veers off to the right on take off and eats it. Oh well.

[Weta43]

Looks like you're getting the hang of it anyway. :)

[159th_Viper]

Unfortunately I couldn't play your track due to the transfer bug. Your plane veers off to the right on take off and eats it. Oh well.

 

Have a look at these two tracks I quickly captured with default 1.2.0. install.

 

In the first instance I come in at a decent enough speed to touch down at 120mph. In the second track I am fast and touch at 130mph. Pay little attention to the bobbing and weaving - I neglected to set my rudder pedals from linear and they are a wee bitty twitchy :D

 

Track #1:Pony Wheeler.trk

 

Track #2:Pony Wheeler fast.trk

 

Hope that helps :)

[Tailgate]

Very helpful, thanks. I'm becoming a little more consistent now, but still very challenging for me.

[VTB_Ray]

Great advice in this thread,

 

It's important to maintain enough speed to keep the tail in the air as you're working to touch the mains gently on the ground.

 

The amount of forward stick required to "stick it" is proportional to the sink rate at touch down. The harder you touch down the more downward momentum the tail has that's trying to rotate the wing and fly/bounce you back into the air.

 

You don't have to hold the foward stick, but a rapid application is needed initially to stop the downward momentum of the tail, once that's arrested you can hold just what you need to keep the tail flying and begin to gently fly it onto the runway as your speed decreases.

 

The key is managing your sink rate and I like to think of it as trying to fly as close as possible to the runway without actually touching it. As I'm slowing the sink rate the stick is moving aft when I touchdown - if I'm "feeling" for the runway too long, an application of power is needed to keep the speed/tail up in order to prevent it from turning into a 3 pointer.

 

Skip to 1:20 for a wheel landing - I arrest the sink at the last second and apply forward stick slightly before or right as it touches to hold it on.

Edited September 11, 2012 by VTB_Ray

[Tailgate]

Wow, very nice vid. You must have a monster system, smooth as glass.

 

Still working on consistently "sticking it", it sort of reminds me of learning to water ski, too far forward or back and it's over.

[Tailgate]

My best landing and roll out yet.

 

2wFgV0qPAsU

[159th_Viper]

My best landing and roll out yet.

 

Pretty as a Picture :thumbup:

[Weta43]

Nice :)

[Echo38]

Nice landing, Tailgate. I recommend practicing it dead-stick, that is, with the power at idle for the entire approach. It's harder to do, but it'll help you learn better.

[Tailgate]

Good suggestion Echo38, I will practice dead sticking it, and also putting some wind into the mix. A weak head wind shouldn't make much of a difference, but the plane seem more likely to float.

[Echo38]

Also, once you're pretty comfortable with what you've already bitten off, try a moderate crosswind--I have a devil of a time with crosswinds, myself.

[VIMANAMAN]

After many weeks not flying, this thread inspired me to just do a few circuits again, and boy is it satisfying when you do an ok circuit / landing!

 

I didn't have anything else planned this weekend so two full days of practise:) - Incidentally I usually drop flap 1 whilst downwind to land, to control speed with the gear up still. Then drop the gear and flap 2 pretty much at the same time as i turn base. Sounds like that's not the proper procedure but it seems wrong to go to 150ish mph (with a sheeet load of drag) with no flaps??

 

Whatever procedure you use and as a few folks here have said already .. practise, practise, practise is really important and makes a massive difference.

 

By the end of today I was side slipping through fairly silly cross winds, albeit pranging half the time, but the other half of the time wrestling the ship down - great fun. Plenty of using differential braking just to stay straight on the roll out.

 

I went crazy and slowly ramped up the cross wind element - cross winds are damn hard but not impossible - best circuit I've managed was 11mps perpendicular to the RWY. (but as I said I broke plenty of ponys). Bally good fun tho!

 

Thanks all contributors for inspiring me to take to the air again and have some bloody good fun.

[TX-EcoDragon]

In "the real world" most every landing in a tailwheel equipped airplane is probably best made in the three point attitude - where the tailwheel touches down at the same time (or slightly before) as the mains. There are of course some exceptions, like the DC-3 or Beech 18 which lose rudder authority in the 3Pt attitude.

 

Even though most of us agree that the 3pt is usually the safest choice, the wheel landing can increase control authority somewhat (and increase speed at touchdown) and so it can be used during blustery and/or crosswind conditions to stick a wheel on the runway while still retaining significant control authority.

 

Despite this, I advocate a 3pt *especially* during strong crosswinds because you will get the additional directional stability that the tailwheel provides right away vs having the tail up and ready to swing into the wind(weathervane), you have a good indication of the strength of the crosswind before you touch down (to avoid the mess that happens when you slow down during the landing only to find you don't have enough rudder/aileron to counter the xwind component) you will touch down at the lowest possible speed, reducing the chance of a gust of wind sending you airborne again as well as minimizing the amount of time and distance you spend rolling down the runway in the ground loop zone (too slow to have strong control authority - but fast enough to have lots of momentum), and of course, even when you land on the maingear, you still have to lower the tail which induces gyroscopic effects, and you still have to decelerate though the same speeds you would have to if you just landed it 3pt! You want to get the airplane slowed down, you want to get the tailwheel down on the ground, and get the stick back ASAP, so why not just land that way!

 

Even the visibility argument is moot - you can touch down in the 3pt attitude and then raise the tail if you want to see over the nose....but really, what good does seeing over the nose do ya? You are too slow to maneuver and too fast to stop - so it just lets you see what you are gonna hit!

 

So really, I only wheel landing because it looks cool, and because it's fun. If there is a crosswind, I'll 3pt it. Of course some pilots will tell you why the wheel landing is much better/safer/etc - and in a few airplanes, in a few instances they are, but most of the time, the 3Pt is the better bet.

 

As far as techniques:

http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235&boardid=147&forumid=181&topicid=3411

 

http://www.taildraggers.com/Documentation.aspx?page=GreatDebate

Edited September 20, 2012 by TX-EcoDragon

[Echo38]

Good suggestion Echo38, I will practice dead sticking it

 

I should point out that, when the engine management update comes, it might be a good idea to try to do the power-less approach as quick as possible; if the engine's at idle for too long, it might over-cool. This can cause it to fail if you apply power suddenly for a go-around. What I do to avoid this problem is to come in high over the runway under normal power, then reduce power as much as I can without the engine temperature dropping, and sideslip in as far as I can without putting myself into a position where an engine failure could keep me from making the runway. Then, when I'm fairly low, I throttle back to idle and land, and I don't touch the throttle again unless I have to go-around (which only occurs if I really badly screw up).

 

In other news, I found out today that, although I can three-point fairly easily, I can't for the life of me wheel land her without a long series of silly bounces. Looks like I got something else to practice!

Edited September 20, 2012 by Echo38

[Tailgate]

It took me about a week to learn the "wheelie", and I'm still not as consistent as i'd like, it's finding that "sweet spot". I enjoy challenges like that, never a boring moment.

[OldCrow47]

The elusive wheelie

 

I have no idea what proper procedures are but I have finally succeeded. I keep airspeed around 120 with the tail a bit low. Exercise patience and back off power slowly as I 'feel' for the runway. As the wheels lightly find earth back off power steadily and let the tail come down. Then plant the tailwheel firmly and all the while stay on the rudder. It's that sense of lightly touching the runway that's important to me. I guess the hard part is knowing where the surface is and NOT drop onto it causing the bounces. I have only done this so far with default fuel load. Sure is cool when you realise you just did it!! -Jim