Russian Air Force Photos and Video (NO DISCUSSION)

[FeoFUN]

The main proof here is the fact that only modernized and new aircrafts, like Su-27SM, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, Su-35 etc, can carry and fire RVV-AE. Old Su-27 and MIG-29(9-12) are not "compatible" with it.

 

The first and only known contract, where mid-range ARH AA missile(RVV-SD) for RuAF figured - was signed in 2009, as complementary contract to the main contract on 48 Su-35S for RuAF.

Edited November 19, 2013 by FeoFUN

[Kuky]

The main proof here is the fact that only modernized and new aircrafts, like Su-27SM, Su-30M2, Su-30SM, Su-35 etc, can carry and fire RVV-AE. Old Su-27 and MIG-29(9-12) are not "compatible" with it.

 

The first and only known contract, where mid-range ARH AA missile(RVV-SD) for RuAF figured - was signed in 2009, as complementary contract to the main contract on 48 Su-35S for RuAF.

 

No one is saying the old Su-27 and MiG-29A is compatible with R-77, but the MiG-29S is (and this is what we have on game)

 

Bug GG seems to think we are "lucky" to have the R-77 in game at all as according to him not even MiG-29S should have it... because again according to him the RuAF doesn't have it at all, because not one pilot they spoke to has seen it. :)

[FeoFUN]

No one is saying the old Su-27 and MiG-29A is compatible with R-77, but the MiG-29S is (and this is what we have on game)

 

Bug GG seems to think we are "lucky" to have the R-77 in game at all as according to him not even MiG-29S should have it... because again according to him the RuAF doesn't have it at all, because not one pilot they spoke to has seen it. :)

Actually, not much is known about those few 9-13S, their current status and shape. But it's pretty well known that R-77 production was scrapped in Ukraine right after 1991 when USSR has collapsed and RVV-AE wasn't in RuAF service because it's a pure export product which is not adapted and not certified by our DoD because it contained much of foreign electronics and other parts.

[pepin1234]

And you or pepin know better? What are your sources? A picture? Heh :) Do you have more pictures? I have F-15 radar operation documents that show it will load 8 120's. You don't have a leg to stand on in these arguments ... this is R-27EA all over again :)

 

 

WOW, after so many years on this forum and so many times this subject was covered ...

 

I really have to say you. You are doing a lot of damage to this comunity. You believe only yours words worth over everybody here. You are an disrespectful person.

Edited November 19, 2013 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

R-77 is a Russian Air Force. As there is a missile R-27P.

 

I recall the R-27P conversation vaguely, and I recall Chizh saying that it wasn't used much and there may not be a lot of it in inventory.

I also recall for the longest time that it was said that RuAF had no R-77's or very few R-77's.

So, if they have R-77's, when did they get them?

 

This is not true. MiG-29S (9-13s) can use the P-77. Most likely, these planes are now in Lipetsk

 

I didn't say they can't use R-77. I said they did not have R-77 available as far as we know.

[pepin1234]

I recall the R-27P conversation vaguely, and I recall Chizh saying that it wasn't used much and there may not be a lot of it in inventory..

 

Please try not mention any Name of the ED staff to try build your false affirmation. We can face your personal theory.

 

 

I also recall for the longest time that it was said that RuAF had no R-77's or very few R-77's.

So, if they have R-77's, when did they get them?.

 

Pure speculation from your side

 

 

 

I didn't say they can't use R-77. I said they did not have R-77 available as far as we know.

 

We??? Who we?? so you are not alone in this offensive!!

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Let's not get personal here.

 

To be honest it sounds like a thing the Russian Air Force would do - not relying on a weapon with foreign parts (can anybody shine a light on what countries are these components from?) and not disclosing the status of their stock.

 

The Russian military is known for showing off technological advances that work but operationally are just smoke and mirrors - they test it, it works well and they can use it, but practically speaking odds are there are at most few missiles available. To counter that impression of course, add deadweight ones to anything vaguely compatible.

 

This is of course my personal opinion and impression.

[Kaktus29]

i think there is some truth in both camps here.. R-77 obviously exists but is it really needed for RuAF? right now? Russian army is in big re-armament stage right now as such many new weapons designed that will have to do their work for the next 20 so years at least.. meaning is it wise to spend money on a 1990-1998 product? especially if it involves some western parts that would make it much easier for the western company to carry this info to CIA and US gets exactly insight of how much stock does RuAF have.. not to mention painful embargo situation in case of political tension as well..

 

So, i think R77 as it is will not play an important air-to-air missile part in RuAF in the future.. there will be of course something new, and more home-made than R77 since some parts of R77 are foreign..

 

but for playing game sake, its not controversial for Mig-29S to use it in DCS.. or in real life.. unless we are in a WW3 scenario where you can run out of stock in 2 hour battle over Georgia.. lol.

[pepin1234]

Let's not get personal here.

 

To be honest it sounds like a thing the Russian Air Force would do - not relying on a weapon with foreign parts (can anybody shine a light on what countries are these components from?) and not disclosing the status of their stock.

 

The Russian military is known for showing off technological advances that work but operationally are just smoke and mirrors - they test it, it works well and they can use it, but practically speaking odds are there are at most few missiles available. To counter that impression of course, add deadweight ones to anything vaguely compatible.

 

This is of course my personal opinion and impression.

 

The Point of view is relative. In an east military scene you never know the real info. Russia was in a clear disadvantage when Soviet Union was down. So how come we can believe they will say to the world the quantity and where are the Missiles. If they manufacture for export, who know the quantity was really exported?

 

You can see how dificult is find some Pictures to see some russian Air-Air payload and if we find it, is because was made to show what they want

 

You never know if is really a R-27ER or R-27EA because the Missile is a modular System. Probably the only Person with this info is the Pilot and not every Pilot. Simple and clear mate.

[GGTharos]

Yes we do know, because R-27EA was never put into service. And we know because ED has access to reliable RuAF sources.

 

There is a lot of stuff that is known, and not published. Just because you don't know it, does not mean others do not know. There are unclassified but unpublished sources on both sides. If you don't know where to look you won't find them. You won't find them on the internet, either, and often it costs a lot of money and time to get this information, so it is not shared - or it is supplied under condition of not sharing, so again, it is not shared.

 

The best part is that there is also a lot of information out there that is reliable and available, but a lot of people prefer to shout about how things are unfair instead of educating themselves either by finding and reading this information or talking to people who actually know a thing or two.

 

You never know if is really a R-27ER or R-27EA because the Missile is a modular System.

Edited November 19, 2013 by GGTharos

[pepin1234]

Yes we do know, because R-27EA was never put into service. And we know because ED has access to reliable RuAF sources.

 

There is a lot of stuff that is known, and not published. Just because you don't know it, does not mean others do not know. There are unclassified but unpublished sources on both sides. If you don't know where to look you won't find them. You won't find them on the internet, either, and often it costs a lot of money and time to get this information, so it is not shared - or it is supplied under condition of not sharing, so again, it is not shared.

 

The best part is that there is also a lot of information out there that is reliable and available, but a lot of people prefer to shout about how things are unfair instead of educating themselves either by finding and reading this information or talking to people who actually know a thing or two.

 

I have to be honest with you. I dont believe you. Your words are smoke.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

The Point of view is relative. In an east military scene you never know the real info. Russia was in a clear disadvantage when Soviet Union was down. So how come we can believe they will say to the world the quantity and where are the Missiles. If they manufacture for export, who know the quantity was really exported?

 

You can see how dificult is find some Pictures to see some russian Air-Air payload and if we find it, is because was made to show what they want

 

You never know if is really a R-27ER or R-27EA because the Missile is a modular System. Probably the only Person with this info is the Pilot and not every Pilot. Simple and clear mate.

 

I agree, however when was the last time Russia actually surprised us in a positive way? When I was there, and talked daily to people with proper acess to info (and as GGTharos said, a lotmof that info isn't published but is still known to people involved/related), all I ever heard were how they were a misorganised, overstaffed, underpaid and poorly funded bunch. Only those who know it can attest to it, the Russian organisation, corruption and bureocracy could drive the USAF's funding down the drain. It's ridiculous but it's true, govt. organisations have so many people in the chain of command that getting anything done properly is impossible.

 

They lost their place on the Brazilian F-X2 competition with the Su-35, which was a favourite among many, because their mess didn't allow ROSOBOROEXPORT (did I spell that right?) to send their bid on time.

 

It makes no sense to stock up with an old weapon when a new one is coming, especially when there are no air wars in sight where the R-77 will be essential. And as mentioned, if an embargo happens due to tensions, that's the end of your stock right there.

 

Also, don't get me wrong but I'll take GGTharos's word in this case. ED has staff that's ex-RuAf. They talk to RuAf personnel all the time. If anyone has a good source, it's them. Pilots are good source of half-reliable info :D if it won't be the Holy Grail, at least it'll give you some leads.

[NOLA]

Wow, this is nice and heated discussion. :D

 

Fact is that the original R-77's were built in Ukraine. They built a certain amouth only (200 iirc) and biggest share went to India. If there are any original R-77's in Russia, then:

 

1: There is very very few of them. Eeeeven if they have them there is very few of them and they are terribly information and camera shy.

 

2: No planes til the recent modernization could use them, other than MiG-29S as pointed out. There was handful of those built, and only handful serve.

 

With modernization and new planes (Su-27SM, SM3, Su-35S and so on) RVV-SD's has supposedly been ordered, but no real details are known. KTRV reports on contracts for foreign countries and type of weapons, but not in regards to Russian contracts.

 

So:

 

1: Original R-77's are not used by RuAF.

 

2: If new R-77's has been ordered then:

a - They are not delivered yet as there is no pictures of RuAF frames carrying them*.

b - They are keeping them "secret". They could, but there is no point of doing that.

 

Hence b is highly unlikely.

 

*Of course Akhtubinsk is a story for itself. It is likely Su-35S'/Su-30SM' are testing them there.

Edited November 19, 2013 by NOLA

[GGTharos]

You don't know enough to be able to believe me or not believe me, or judge whether what I'm saying is smoke.

 

I have to be honest with you. I dont believe you. Your words are smoke.

[pepin1234]

I agree, however when was the last time Russia actually surprised us in a positive way? When I was there, and talked daily to people with proper acess to info .

 

One Moment your were there?? but you are already there, yes or not? look your location mate. Dude... :D

[NOLA]

Not sure why so many choose to pretty much attack GGTharos as he is pretty much correct.

 

Those that say he is lying and so on, it should be pretty easy for you to prove you are right, please simply do the following:

 

Show us actual RuAF planes with R-77 or any of its spawns.

[pepin1234]

Not sure why so many choose to pretty much attack GGTharos as he is pretty much correct.

 

Those that say he is lying and so on, it should be pretty easy for you to prove you are right, please simply do the following:

 

Show us actual RuAF planes with R-77 or any of its spawns.

 

You are in the page 85. Go backward

[NOLA]

I like to walk forward thank you. Walking backwards is not very practical. :)

[Flаnker]

I recall the R-27P conversation vaguely, and I recall Chizh saying that it wasn't used much and there may not be a lot of it in inventory.

As far as I know, these missiles are used to destroy strategic targets (AWACS).

 

I also recall for the longest time that it was said that RuAF had no R-77's or very few R-77's.

So, if they have R-77's, when did they get them?

Russia could produce R-77. What do you think, where to take the test launches of missiles?

[Flаnker]

a - They are not delivered yet as there is no pictures of RuAF frames carrying them*.

 

The lack of photos is not evidence of absence missiles.

[NOLA]

Bit silly to have missiles in service which pilots apparently never train with...

 

And as said, no reason to keep them secret.

[GGTharos]

As far as I know, these missiles are used to destroy strategic targets (AWACS).

 

Or stand-off jammers, but yeah.

 

Russia could produce R-77. What do you think, where to take the test launches of missiles?

 

So? I've seen AIM-54's and PAC-3's on F-15's ... what do you think? :) Get my drift? There have been ARH AIM-7 proposals, there have been IR AIM-7 proposals, and other fun things as well on this side. They never really happened.

 

Same with Stingers on Apaches, US doesn't use them, although other countries do.

[Flаnker]

Bit silly to have missiles in service which pilots apparently never train with...

 

And as said, no reason to keep them secret.

Medium-range missiles allowed on the ground in the Astrakhan region. Usually pilots fly simulators with missiles. The rocket can be hung on the plane limited number of times (this applies to any missiles (Russian or American)).

[GGTharos]

Yes, this is why training missiles are used, like for example CATM-9. These are called 'Captive Carry Missiles', and have no explosives or rocket motors, but have all the necessary hardware to provide correct electronic feedback to the fire control system, so the pilot can practice as if he was using a live missile.

 

This is used by most if not all air forces. The point here is that training sessions that we know about for RuAF have been using R-27R, not R-77, until fairly recently.

 

The motto of any combat force is 'you fight like you train, you train like you fight'. Do you understand the idea behind this?

 

Medium-range missiles allowed on the ground in the Astrakhan region. Usually pilots fly simulators with missiles. The rocket can be hung on the plane limited number of times (this applies to any missiles (Russian or American)).

[Flаnker]

Yes, this is why training missiles are used, like for example CATM-9. These are called 'Captive Carry Missiles', and have no explosives or rocket motors, but have all the necessary hardware to provide correct electronic feedback to the fire control system, so the pilot can practice as if he was using a live missile.

 

This is used by most if not all air forces. The point here is that training sessions that we know about for RuAF have been using R-27R, not R-77, until fairly recently.

 

The motto of any combat force is 'you fight like you train, you train like you fight'. Do you understand the idea behind this?

 

This is a special training device. They allow you to simulate suspended rocket. As there is a mass - overall layouts

 

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/angolubenko/view/554057/