Help on how to make Ai aggressive!

[Razor5-1]

Hi,

Can somebody please help me on how I can make my Ai aggressive, as if they are actually defending/attacking a position with great aggression and determination to complete their objective.

A couple of things.

 

1). If one of the units is attacked and jettisons their loadout, but the wingman has a full payload they both RTB. Is it possible for the empty jet to loiter while the jet with munitions will still carry out the mission?

 

2). My Ai units seem very passive, they fire off a couple of weapons, then RTB. e.g. an Apache fired off it's Hellfires, then left the AO still with full rockets and gun. The enemy still had units.

 

In another instance a hind fired two of it's six missiles and then just headed back to base, with a large amount of enemy left.

 

Thanks.

[mjeh]

Hi!

 

In general it is worth to consider that the AI in most cases will show caution and not display Rambo attitude. There are some steps you can take to increase their aggression levels, however.

 

To really help answer your questions it will be useful with some more information about the context, since different configurations and situations will yield different behaviour.

 

What units are you using, what are their taskings, how are you making them attack the enemy?

[Razor5-1]

I don't want them to be rambo by any means, going in guns blazing, I want them to use their ordnance up and then leave the AO. But they only fire a missile or two then head for home.

 

I trying to get them to attack a moving convoy, with mild air defence, SA-9.

My aircraft approach the convoy take out the air defence then head for home. Same result no matter what aircraft type it seems. Their task in CAS, I set them to perform task, attack group (Convoy).

 

I'm making them attack

[mjeh]

Try to fiddle with the following under the advanced waypoint options (where you set the perform task that you mentioned):

 

stop condition for the attack task (for example set the duration of the attack to 10 minutes)

number (I'm not sure what this does but I think it's the number of aircraft from the flight that engage in the attack)

reaction to threat

[BRooDJeRo]

You can set an individual group to atack a distinct target as a part of the mission for sure. Its somewhere in the individual vehicle options if im correct or attack tagets that come inside a zone, let it patrol a zone, set extra situational awareness options.

Theres also 3rd party additional missions options with SLmod, but that requires at least a rudementary amount of scriptingknowledge.

 

By the looks of it you can control units going places by triggerzones (moving/stationary) activations and/or behaviour settings.

Edited November 15, 2012 by BRooDJeRo

[Razor5-1]

I have set the duration to anything from 15 minutes to 2 hours, but after a little while they break off the attack. The air units still have weapons and they're still ground units left.

[mjeh]

Hmm, well what has worked for me in some missions I've made is to order them to search then engage in zone, then move the zone marker onto the target area with duration set to 10-15 minutes.

 

Usually they'll pick off what there is to kill before heading off, so long as they're not being shot at by SAMs and AAA.

[Druid_]

Can you attach your mission and I will take a look when I get some spare time. There is always the possibility that there's a bug that needs sorting.

[Razor5-1]

Unfortunately Druid it's not just a single mission. It occurs in seemingly every mission I try. Sometimes a group will stick around and fight other times they fire their standoff weapons then leave.

 

Another issue I found today was when I have an AWACS with fighter escort, the lead will engage a threat but the wingman RTB's? Every single time.

 

Here's an example of both issues. The engagement range doesn't seem to be being adhered to. The bogies get well inside the range before the escorts react.

TESTING.miz

Edited November 16, 2012 by Razor5-1

[arteedecco]

Hey Razor5-1, I appreciate your post and question because I've been having similar questions / issues forcing the AI to do what I want.

 

I created a simple mission where there was a bunch of ground units and some CH-47Ds at an airbase... and a Hawk SAM battery.

 

I then added a flight of two Mig-27's with 100% gas, full load of rockets and flares / chaff.

 

They are setup for CAS and I put their second waypoint within visual range of the airfield where all the enemies are. If the Hawk Search Radar is downed (making it unable to engage air threats), the Mig-27s engage until their guns run dry, expending all AG munitions first (as you'd expect).

 

However, IF the Hawk SAM battery is active, they dump flares / chaff and make defensive AA calls and just orbit around with full afterburner and never seem to do much.

 

Also, if I put them into "Ground Attack" mode (I think that's the correct name), they do basically nothing, fly to the waypoint and RTB. I don't get it. So... I switched them back to CAS and all works as expected.

 

Okay, so the point...

 

a.) Are your planes running out of gas? If they are defensive they may be full afterburner and then hit bingo fuel pretty quick and have to head home.

 

b.) Are your planes running out of flares / chaff? I wonder if they DO expend all these defensive countermeasures if they will head home?

-- What about if there is still an active AA threat, then will they head home if they have expended all chaff/flares?

 

I am also confused about the "number" condition and what exactly it does?

[Razor5-1]

I want the Ai to attack a certain group of units and not everything on the battlefield, which happens with CAS, you've no control over what they go after.

 

They are not running out of gas or chaff/flare.

For example today I had two Su-25's attacking an Armour group, they were fired on by IFV 30mm cannon. They jettisoned all their weapons and immediately RTB. Making no attempt to carry the fight to the enemy.

To me the Ai units seem rather limp. I hope it's just something that i'm doing wrong.

 

The number condition is the actions sequence number in the actions list panel.

Hope this helps about the number.

[BRooDJeRo]

When you use fast mover AI jets that have afterburner capabilitys fuel runs out quickly.

I ran into similar problems when creating large scale AI fighter encounters. I solved the fuelproblem by a breaking off path and a triggerzone triggering the AI to do an airrefuel on a KC not too far away.

Some would refuel and some would keep trying to make contact with the KC while others refueling making horrible accidents.

 

After refuel they would resume, but there was no remaining task after refueling. A taskswitch after refueling didnt seem to work somehow. Maybe thats different now. The aircraft would find the nearest neutral airfield and land to deactivate.

[Razor5-1]

I added a tanker for them, but even A-10's without any burner don't make much of an attack. They fire their mavericks, set up for what looks like a couple of attack runs but then break off and leave. They won't employ their bombs.

[BRooDJeRo]

Yeah, Those AI make a run for it when stuff gets complex. Perhaps a trigger where the 'tired' AI get removed and a 2nd deactivated similar aircraft is activated a second later at aprox the same position. This one will listen to a whole new set of rules again. You can add more layers ofcourse to keep it going for a couple of hours.

 

It might be a bit surreal, but might work. When you make the switch as seamless as possible and out of sight nobody will notice unless they are made aware. This opens options in doing this with 2 or more aircraft tag-teaming in and out. This also might make more complex and aggresive AI possible without mindbogling triggers. Different randomly generated attack scenarios in different situations so stuff gets even unknown what will happen for the designer himself.

Edited November 17, 2012 by BRooDJeRo

[arteedecco]

I want the Ai to attack a certain group of units and not everything on the battlefield, which happens with CAS, you've no control over what they go after.

 

They are not running out of gas or chaff/flare.

For example today I had two Su-25's attacking an Armour group, they were fired on by IFV 30mm cannon. They jettisoned all their weapons and immediately RTB. Making no attempt to carry the fight to the enemy.

To me the Ai units seem rather limp. I hope it's just something that i'm doing wrong.

 

The number condition is the actions sequence number in the actions list panel.

Hope this helps about the number.

 

Yeah, I hear you. I created a mission (attached) where there is a flight of 4 F-15C loaded up on the ramp and then there are two attacking groups. First is four L-139 set to CAS and second is 2 Su-33 set to CAS. One thing I have noticed when I originally created the mission I gave the F-15Cs 3 external tanks! Yikes... I thought they would dump the externals as soon as they engaged other aircraft, but they didn't! Odd! So maybe this is a clue about the AI algorithm for when to dump stores. Maybe if the aircraft is significantly disadvantaged in the fight, it attempts escape?

 

Some more experimenting is in order to be sure. Let me know what you find out too, because this is troublesome for me as well.

 

When the first attacking group enters a trigger zone, the F-15Cs startup and launch for a Fighter Sweep. Because of the way things are timed in my mission, what generally happens is the lead F-15C is airborne and searching right as the L-139s begin their attack run, or are close. Then you start seeing the L-139s dumping ALL of their external stores as they go into a defensive posture. Now... usually one of them is not engaged and you will see him continue to press the attack, but AS SOON as an F-15C engages him, he goes defensive and tries to escape.

 

On the other hand, the Su-33s usually come into the battle late and begin to attack with their Medium Range missiles, usually taking out one F-15C before they are killed as well.

 

You will notice a difference in behavior between the Su-33s and the L-139s... mainly because I believe the Su-33s have AA missiles - possibly also due to their AA radar... making them more on equivalent footing to the F-15Cs.

 

One interesting thing to try on this mission would be to remove all but one of the F-15Cs. I believe by making him outnumbered he would be downed by the Su-33s. It would be curious to see if they continue with their CAS mission or RTB after being engaged?

 

So... back to the CAS / ground attack question. Yeah... you are right about CAS being general and not what you want specifically. Isn't there a way to change the ROE for aircraft and maybe alter their prioritization and how they react? Maybe you could adjust the ROE for your attacking aircraft and keep them from dumping all external stores, or taking evasive maneuvers (though I know you really just want them to not be pansies and remain in the fight if they are not downed... like a Human player would! :).

Alert_Aircraft.miz

Edited November 17, 2012 by arteedecco

[Druid_]

Unfortunately Druid it's not just a single mission. It occurs in seemingly every mission I try. Sometimes a group will stick around and fight other times they fire their standoff weapons then leave.

Ok see attached .trk file (you can also open this in the ME as a mission file to see changes I made. 1 simple change btw).

 

You have 2 A10a's airborne with 1 WP set approx 8 nm from the enemy target. At that WP you have a start enroute task-> search then engage in zone.

 

In my test the A10s got to the WP at which the search then engage in zone logic will kick in, unfortunately you had no additional waypoints so the RTB logic also kicked in. They RTB'd without engaging.

 

Reasons:

1) The A10s in the short time between the search then engage logic and RTB logic did not see the enemy. Not surprising really, I would have difficulty spotting anything from 8nm with the MK1 eyeball ( no targetting pod fitted! )

2) Search then engage in zone when set as an enroute task will continue even though other waypoints are set afterwards. The problem was you had no waypoints and the nearest friendly base was behind so they turned 180 and therefore had no chance of detecting anything in the set zone.

 

solution:

I set one additional waypoint after the lat WP and towards the enemy. Sure enough as they got closer they detected the enemy and engaged. Both aircraft sustained damage and jettisoned stores as a result (standard procedure when engines are damaged), 1 RTB'd and the other continued to press on the attack with guns only.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Another issue I found today was when I have an AWACS with fighter escort, the lead will engage a threat but the wingman RTB's? Every single time.

 

Here's an example of both issues. The engagement range doesn't seem to be being adhered to. The bogies get well inside the range before the escorts react

known bug and reported. Put the wingman in a seperate group and set a 'follow'' action on the lead escort or AWACS.

aggressive_enough_4_ya.trk

[Druid_]

@artdeeco.

 

what you are seeing is the L-139 being locked up by the F-15, he gets a launch warning and dumps stores to avoid the incoming attack (standard procedure). Any others not locked by radar and/or fired on may press on their attack but when engaged will do likewise. Perfectly acceptable behaviour in my opinion. In fact if I was in a L-139 and a F-15 got airborne I would be dumping my stores and getting the hell out of there screaming 'help' to the su33s as I went!

 

Changing ROE and reaction to threat WILL change the behaviour of your AI as mentioned. Also use Use Radar NEVER USE at start then changing to ON at a later WP will affect detection (no RWR sig in other aircraft).

 

There are some quirks with the AI and they will never be perfect and occasionally you might find a bug. In the main though I have found it fun to find solutions and more often than not I am trying to get AI to be too damn stupid or my mission logic is just plain wrong.

[Razor5-1]

Thanks Druid, you really are extremely helpful!

I thought it wouldn't matter where I put the Search then engage,distance wise from the waypoint, I assumed they would make their way to it, more of a probing attack my fault.

[arteedecco]

@artdeeco.

...

In the main though I have found it fun to find solutions and more often than not I am trying to get AI to be too damn stupid or my mission logic is just plain wrong.

 

@Druid_ Completely agree with that! Sometimes it would be nice to be able to create a sort of "damn the torpedoes" type AI that is just hell-bent on getting to the target regardless of "reasonableness", but that's not a biggie! :)

 

I was proud of myself, being able to figure out the Alert 5 scenario and feel like it's my first step towards some more complex missions. It's help from people like you that really make it possible! Like @Razor5-1 said:

 

Thanks Druid, you really are extremely helpful!

 

Cheers!

[Druid_]

My pleasure guys. :) I look forward to playing your missions.